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Marou
03-22-2010, 02:40 AM
Recommend me good games, preferably free to play...that let me just go out and kill monsters. Anyone? Anything?

See, back in the day when we bitched about grinding we weren't bitching about going out and killing random monsters in random parties. No, that shit was fun. We were bitching about killing the same goddamn monsters for 4 days to get half a level.

Then WoW came out and instead of killing monsters and grouping with random people you play all alone for the most part and be Fedex bitch boy for NPC's. If you refuse to follow this mode of leveling, you level like 100x slower than if you do. Its that or struggle with forming parties to do the same instances over an over again in any given level range.

Every game since then has done the same thing and its fucked it all up.

I'm tired of instances, tired of quests, I wanna just go out and kill shit and get a reasonable but not insanely fast amount of XP while I do it.

Andile™
03-22-2010, 06:25 AM
...Fedex bitch boy for NPC's....

That's exactly what I hate about quest based games. I mean, if they want me to play postman, I demand a POBox...

I'll seriously take killing beetles and mudmen by the lake any day. Give me a camp, damnit.

trol
03-22-2010, 08:38 AM
In WoW, you can dungeon grind now. With the LFG changes, you can do instances across servers like the BGs. Thats all I see people doing mostly leveling up now.

Marou
03-22-2010, 08:58 AM
Its that or struggle with forming parties to do the same instances over an over again in any given level range.

I'm tired of instances, tired of quests, I wanna just go out and kill shit and get a reasonable but not insanely fast amount of XP while I do it.


What was fun about non instanced dungeons is you can just kinda hang out around them and kill crap until you find a few people at which point you can go a little ways in, and if more people join you can go deeper in, and ...

Missions are fun and all in action games, but they are dull and even more boring than a good camping spot in games that play like a standard MMO.

VKhaun
03-22-2010, 08:59 AM
Fallen Earth is a huge area full of crap to kill, and you level decently fast through just fighting.
Free week long trial (can't give you items if you're trial), but 39.99+15/mo beyond that.
Shooter mechanic, but it's slow and clunky. Not negligible since the enemies duck and weave on you, but not hard either.
A central quest line will need to be done to get to the next sector, but that's it.
Another quest line if you want to craft vehicles, which is a pain in the dick.
A quest line to do a mutation later on.

Ammunition will hold you back with guns, but melee is ridiculously effective. You can both dual wield (DPS) and use two handers (Front load) just by speccing the melee skill. This skill also gives you melee defense, and the strength stat it's based on ups your HP some, making it a very strong min-max option. You don't even need much defense in sector one, so you could entirely skip all the skill point quests and do strength+melee, then use the overflow for defenses later when you reach the cap for your level. STR+END+Coordination, Armor+Dodge+Melee. Then much later add Willpower and the mutation line of your choice. If you go back for the skill point quests you can do two mutation lines, maybe three at a functional level but not maxed.

The game is centered on crafting though. You may explore a new interesting area, find a camp or battle field where two factions fight, or go down in a sewer, but the only reward you'll find will require X scavenge skill, or X nature skill to search through for ingredients to make things. Your best case scenario for a boss drop is a banana and a flat can of soda. The plus side of this however, is that everything in the game can be used for crafting if you choose to. For example, if you want you can go to a wrecked satellite near one starter town and scavenge the satellite bits even without the quest for them. They stack well and their description includes a note that they count as a certain type of scrap metal, and can be used for that slot when crafting. That banana from the boss? Counts as 'tainted fruit'. Crafting is VERY slow, items typically take about ten minutes to craft but nothing actually stops the craft process unless you abort it yourself. You can go into combat, salvage items, or even log out and have it continue while you're not there. Not sure if you're into crafting or not, if you're tired of questing. :/

There are 'town events' that I have not messed with much that give tokens. The basic idea is a series of NPC with basic grind/fetch quests. You get a token or two for doing one that can be traded in. When X of each quest have been completed by players in the region (global count) an event is triggered. The one I did had the wood fetch quest result in towers being made by an outpost, and another quest result in guard being placed. Eventually after enough of all the quests being done the thug faction in the area sent a ton of NPC's to attack our little outpost and a few players jumped in with the NPC's and guard.

If you can stomach a subscription, start in Boneclaw after the tutorial, and I'll show you around a bit.





'Just killing stuff' is the realm of shooters though. Try some Killing Floor?

Marou
03-22-2010, 09:01 AM
Fallen Earth has lots of quests to do for extra skill points, but they are 100% optional.

If they give you extra skill points they are not optional at all because you'd be comparatively gimpy if you skipped them.

Garal
03-22-2010, 09:13 AM
Damn Marou that's exactly how I feel about MMOs now a days and what WoW did to the market.

trol
03-22-2010, 09:30 AM
Even DAoC is a bastardized child of WoW now. I could not see a game that was based on Camps making it in this day and age. I would like to see one maybe that supports camping as well as questing maybe. They would just have to make camping comparative to Questing. Last couple of Korean games that I played that barley had quests were just too much of a grind. I agree that instancing is the downfall of MMOs. It is suppose to be Massive Multiplayer. I miss DAoC back before SI or even after SI. It was cool to see the groups all around and to be able to find one randomly when you wondered into a dungeon.

Boxy Brown
03-22-2010, 09:58 AM
Come play Uthgard with us. We chill at a camp until the camp bonus dries up then we find another one. It's the perfect amount of variance among leveling spots, and you get to re-explore old world daoc while we do it.

Age and I were 8manning down some purple mobs in Mithra yesterday, was a blast.

Sillywilly
03-22-2010, 10:16 AM
Recommend me good games, preferably free to play...that let me just go out and kill monsters. Anyone? Anything?

See, back in the day when we bitched about grinding we weren't bitching about going out and killing random monsters in random parties. No, that shit was fun. We were bitching about killing the same goddamn monsters for 4 days to get half a level.

Then WoW came out and instead of killing monsters and grouping with random people you play all alone for the most part and be Fedex bitch boy for NPC's. If you refuse to follow this mode of leveling, you level like 100x slower than if you do. Its that or struggle with forming parties to do the same instances over an over again in any given level range.

Every game since then has done the same thing and its fucked it all up.

I'm tired of instances, tired of quests, I wanna just go out and kill shit and get a reasonable but not insanely fast amount of XP while I do it.

NO YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! WOW DID IT THIS WAY AND WOW HAS MILLIONS OF SUBSCRIBERS SO THIS IS THE WAY EVERYONE LIKES IT! NEW MMORPGS AREN'T DROPPING LIKE FLIES BECAUSE OF THIS FORMULA EITHER!!!

/end sarcasm

I 100% agree with you. For some reason all MMO developers have assumed that every bit of WoWs success has come down to its fedex questing, no housing/etc system. And they keep failing hard.

I've already predicted on several forums that the MMO market will eventually crash and burn and be just another come and gone and then a few years later a company will release a true old school fantasy MMO along the lines of DAoC/Everquest and it will be a huge success.


Even DAoC is a bastardized child of WoW now. I could not see a game that was based on Camps making it in this day and age. I would like to see one maybe that supports camping as well as questing maybe. They would just have to make camping comparative to Questing. Last couple of Korean games that I played that barley had quests were just too much of a grind. I agree that instancing is the downfall of MMOs. It is suppose to be Massive Multiplayer. I miss DAoC back before SI or even after SI. It was cool to see the groups all around and to be able to find one randomly when you wondered into a dungeon.

A-freaking-men.

And I tried telling people this about the Catacombs expansion in DAoC back on the original Cats boards but people wanted to argue "Have you tried it? WoW has it!".

I hate instancing in an MMO.

Take LotRO for example now. The bulk of the main storyline is instanced. Most of the class based quests are instanced. An entire new way to play the game, called skirmishes, is you guessed it, instanced.

Why do people even bother playing an MMO if they don't want to bump into other people? I agree you shouldn't be forced to group to progress in an MMO, but common, having my own little roped off section of the world all to myself? That's what single player is for.

Moonspell
03-22-2010, 10:26 AM
The difference here, Silly, is that Marou makes it abundantly clear that this is HIS opinion and something HE wants in a game. The reason we used to criticise you is because your narcissism (I would say borderline solipsism, but that's a bit too far) comes through in everything you post. You tend to make it seem like only what you say goes or what you perceive is the truth.

I'm just sayng...

Anyway, I think Marou has a valid point here. I tend to get a bit bored quest grinding just as I got bored farming drakorans in AC back in the day. A good mixture of the two, or even just an OPTION to do either without being at a total disadvantage for choosing one over the other would be nice.

Marou
03-22-2010, 12:07 PM
I think the brunt of what was lost was the social aspect. When you are camping you are shooting the shit, joking, having fun, chatting randomly in guild, etc. When you are doing quests or instances you are fucking rushing everywhere. Thats fine sometimes, I'm just sick of it; and short of cracking out games I am way tired of like DAoC, or Lineage 2, I don't know how to get a good REALLY MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game to play. That said, just killing mobs can be boring by yourself...but wait, I WAS RARELY BY MYSELF cause its a MULTIPLAYER GAME. I was killing mobs with Moonspell, Asquiol, Windowns, Aeinna, etc. And ya know what? It was way more fun than running around spastic-ally from X to Y, never being able to do more than duo because everyone is on different goddamn parts of 9999 part long quest chains.

trol
03-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Questing has made it a duo or single player game when leveling. That really does suck that you can't PUG while leveling on quests because everyone has to be on the same step of quest or haven't done the quest yet. They need a system that allows you to share a quest with someone, no matter if they have done it before or are missing previous steps of the quest. MMOs really need to improve the grouping aspect and really make it easy to join up randomly and do stuff. There needs to be a focus on the social aspect of MMOs.

Moonspell
03-22-2010, 12:29 PM
There's actually a very interesting point being made here about how massively multiplayer games have changed to become single player leveling with a bit of high-end multiplayer gear grinding. The multiplayer aspect is kind of a sidebar until late game, it seems.

Marou
03-22-2010, 01:32 PM
Questing has made it a duo or single player game when leveling.

Beyond that, if you duo in a game like WoW its a commitment. You can't just play with someone some nights and take others off. You both have to always play at the same time or someone will get left behind and time will have to be devoted to "catch them up" so you both stay on the same quest page. I duo'd a character from 1-70 in WoW with Aeinna, and due to me being too tired to play when she wanted to sometimes, we would spend whole days just getting me caught up to where she was in quests.

By contrast in DAoC I played with Moonspell and Asquiol like 80% of the time, and Windowns 30% of the time, and he was always several levels behind us...but that didn't matter! When we were all online we could all group together and go have fun. That type of gameplay doesn't exist anymore.

Was it perfect? Nah, solo'ing was really tedious and boring, and some of the levels, particularly in the 40's; took WAY too long. Thats where the grind was, 40-50. Maybe those levels could have benefited from a handful of daily quests you could do to get better xp than solo'ing when you were on alone. Quests aren't evil, they just shouldn't be the end all be all; and they should never provide as good a loot and xp as just running around playing with your friends killing stuff.

Moonspell
03-22-2010, 01:40 PM
If anything, quests should be a bonus when you are out killing stuff. Similar to the random drop item quests in WoW. Just turn in the trinket you found while killing mobs and get extra XP.

I don't know how to make the system perfect for everyone, but I'm sure a happy medium can be found.

Marou
03-22-2010, 01:46 PM
I think a large part of it is that even the games that don't make camping and adventuring vastly slower XP than questing you get tons of sweet gear for your level from questing and gear NEVER drops off of normal mobs, only bosses. Back in the day a regular skeleton could drop a new vest for you...and when you were done with it you could pass it on to a buddy or guildmate that had crappier gear. Which brings me to another thing I hate about the post WoW MMO world, Soulbound items...but thats worthy of its own topic.

Moonspell
03-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Now that you mention it, I remember giving away all sorts of gear that wasn't useful for me any longer. I even gave low level rings and such to random players in low level areas.

Yeah, there is something broken. A game needs to come out that has an acceptable questing system and equivalent grinding system.

Marou
03-22-2010, 01:54 PM
I don't even think they should be equilavent. I think questing should be superior to solo for a support class, worse than grouping for every class, and the same as grinding solo for a damage class. Make raid dungeons instanced, that makes sense; but keep your regular dungeons in the world where people can just go and hang out, find a random group, make new friends, and upgrade their gear. Then you'd have the best of both worlds.

Will it happen? Probably not. I don't even think these issues are on anyone's radar.

Moonspell
03-22-2010, 01:59 PM
That sounds about right. I do miss the old days of the Tomb thing in DAoC. It used to be exciting to hit level 8 or whatever and go down there to get new equipment with random people.

Yeah, I think everyone thinks that the success of WoW is indicative of how all new MMOs need to be built in order to compete. But I think that's the wrong mindset. Why leave WoW for an inferior clone?

Something revolutionary will have to happen to get the interest of some of us gamers.

Marou
03-22-2010, 02:08 PM
Something revolutionary will have to happen to get the interest of some of us gamers.

Hell, I don't even think it has to be revolutionary. Just use the crap that worked for whats out there and it'd be pretty awesome.

1. Meaningful world PvP (DAoC, Aika) *Big battles are fun. Battlegrounds are a nice diversion but are just diversions. They have no meaning, and should never be cross server. That removes any community component that might otherwise form. WoW PvP was more fun before it even gave rewards than it was after battlegrounds.
2. Group or duo camping more beneficial than solo questing *Tired of massively single player online games.
3. Items not Soulbound. *This is cack, if you want a money sink in the game add gambling and enchant systems that have a chance of destroying items.
4. Regular dungeons NOT instanced *Described above.

Games with original gameplay are finally coming out, but no MMO's that change the leveling and instance design established by WoW are coming out; that I know of. Thats why I posted this. Looking to see if other people know things I don't.

Sillywilly
03-22-2010, 03:00 PM
The difference here, Silly, is that Marou makes it abundantly clear that this is HIS opinion and something HE wants in a game. The reason we used to criticise you is because your narcissism (I would say borderline solipsism, but that's a bit too far) comes through in everything you post. You tend to make it seem like only what you say goes or what you perceive is the truth.

I'm just sayng...

Anyway, I think Marou has a valid point here. I tend to get a bit bored quest grinding just as I got bored farming drakorans in AC back in the day. A good mixture of the two, or even just an OPTION to do either without being at a total disadvantage for choosing one over the other would be nice.

No they were just plain wrong. They said it would be good for a game like DAoC and that questing/instancing wouldn't be as boring as "grinding" at a camp. I said otherwise. Instances and quests killed grouping, also known as camping with friends, and the game seriously declined because of it. I tried telling them that Fedex could get just as repetitive as grinding but they disagreed.

That being said, I can't remember a single particular name of anyone who disagreed with me, I just remember there was 3-4 people at least that thought instancing and quest running would be the shit in DAoC.

Now across every forum (not just DAoC) you see people longing for the days of pre-WoW MMORPGs. IMO this is a case of "the grass is greener". People didn't realize the benefits of a camp grind until they no longer had that option.


By contrast in DAoC I played with Moonspell and Asquiol like 80% of the time, and Windowns 30% of the time, and he was always several levels behind us...but that didn't matter! When we were all online we could all group together and go have fun. That type of gameplay doesn't exist anymore.


I said this exact same thing (well, the context of it) in the LotRO forums. This same discussion has happened there several times over the past few months I've been playing it because LotRO is kinda known for its longer quest chains. (Like barrows, etc).


you get tons of sweet gear for your level from questing and gear NEVER drops off of normal mobs, only bosses. Back in the day a regular skeleton could drop a new vest for you...and when you were done with it you could pass it on to a buddy or guildmate that had crappier gear. Which brings me to another thing I hate about the post WoW MMO world, Soulbound items...but thats worthy of its own topic.

Not to sound like a herbitual agree-er or anything but I also made this argument on the LotRO forum lately. I absolutely hate the fact that everyone is running around in the same crap and I especially dispise the "set item" craze in WoW and Warhammer. I miss the days when an item replaced the one you have currently because it had an extra stat bonus on it, or it had a higher resist on it, etc. Not just because it was the next piece of a higher tier set. Random loot was a major factor in the excitement of the camp "grind" in DAoC. You never know when that next item that was slightly better may drop.

In short the list of things I don't like about the new wave of MMOs:

1. Instancing (for me personally, instancing period)
2. Bound items (I was avid about leaving PC/SC gear in our guild vault in DAoC, particularly for Thid levels and such so that new comers could gear up and go have fun in the BGs)
3. Set Gear (I hate seeing everyone in the same stuff. Random loot drops from mobs with increased bonus potential for harder mobs FTW)
4. The Solo Grind. (questing is nothing but a single player RPG )
5. "Mini Games" (partially because they are just more instances, mostly because an open BG with 3 on 3 fighting for a keep is far more fun and exciting).
6. Limited and after thought PvsP.
7. Less immersion factors, like a good housing system, a complex mount system (mount choices, bards, armor, etc).

Marou
03-22-2010, 03:09 PM
7. Less immersion factors, like a good housing system, a complex mount system (mount choices, bards, armor, etc)

On that topic, aside from a few free to play games, I have not seen one P2P release since DAoC with housing and DYES. I personally love dyes, cause I can mix and match armor without looking like some freakish clown. Of course, I guess its all moot when everyone is all wearing identical tier sets anyways...

I like minigames when they are done right, and I think they add to the immersion. A good example is Mabinogi, I can equip the magical version of a metal detector and go run around and look for buried treasure, or go river rafting past an area infested with goblins and try to kill as many as possible without dying along the way. Or I can go hot air balooning to try and thin out some of the wyverns hovering over an area. Those are all examples of great mini-games I would like to see more of. Team deathmatch and CTF as the only versions of rewarding PvP I could do without.

On the topic of mini games I was floored the first time I played Mabinogi and I got a part time job with the church. I expected go kill XYZ monsters, instead she says, "Go milk some cows and bring me back some eggs, we're trying to feed the hungry here." That game is full of great ideas and flaws. So instead of being the best shit ever, its good and bad at the same time.

Boxy Brown
03-22-2010, 03:49 PM
I really enjoyed the quests in Conan. They were straightforward without being simple, and if you were retarded or lazy they'd even tell you exactly where to go on the map. Not to mention, if you got fed up with other people you could just go do night time single player stuff.

Too bad the rest of that game was horrendous.

In other news, Uthgard still owns pretty hard.

VKhaun
03-22-2010, 03:54 PM
I've always been 60% game play and 40% customization.

Dyes are just one of many features I don't know why games would ever release without.
Appearance slots are pure common sense IMO. Optional ways to add flair to your character.
Trophies from WARhammerOnline were a great example, too.

A notepad and character bio/info. It's a microscopic .txt file! Give us a personal writing space for people to see when they 'examine' us in the LFG window or click on us in the world, and a /note command to bring up a pad to type on and save in-game. Shared tab for all characters, and personal tab for just that character. You can't tell me that's going to take significant effort from people who say they can build an MMO.

A weapon upgrade system is another. From guns to dragon slaying axes, if you can't upgrade your weapon and you just have to throw it away then it never means anything to you no matter how shiny it is. When DAoC first announced artifacts and said they would 'grow' with use, I assumed you could get them in the mid levels and keep using them to 50, with options on how to upgrade them. This seemed common sense to me that building a weapon or item along with your character would be fun. Instead we got... what we got... lol.

Boss loot. Why on earth would you ever let a person kill a giant monster or skilled enemy and not get anything good? I hate that crap. If you're worried about balance just don't make it amazing. Make it look cool, have some utility, or do nothing and go in an appearance slot, simply have the drop be a very, very, high quantity of something normal like potions or ammunition. I've never felt so disappointed in a game as the first time I killed the boss of Mithra's Tomb and Nisse's lair in the same day, and found nothing useful. If they wanted to be lazy about it, All this takes is a merchant in town with gear for all level ranges, and adding 100% chance for a boss to drop a token around his own level. But no, I can still get modern MMO's and go kill bosses to get rotten fruit and flat soda, or a laughable amount of coin and some sell scraps.

Sillywilly
03-22-2010, 03:55 PM
On that topic, aside from a few free to play games, I have not seen one P2P release since DAoC with housing and DYES. I personally love dyes, cause I can mix and match armor without looking like some freakish clown. Of course, I guess its all moot when everyone is all wearing identical tier sets anyways...

I like minigames when they are done right, and I think they add to the immersion. A good example is Mabinogi, I can equip the magical version of a metal detector and go run around and look for buried treasure, or go river rafting past an area infested with goblins and try to kill as many as possible without dying along the way. Or I can go hot air balooning to try and thin out some of the wyverns hovering over an area. Those are all examples of great mini-games I would like to see more of. Team deathmatch and CTF as the only versions of rewarding PvP I could do without.

On the topic of mini games I was floored the first time I played Mabinogi and I got a part time job with the church. I expected go kill XYZ monsters, instead she says, "Go milk some cows and bring me back some eggs, we're trying to feed the hungry here." That game is full of great ideas and flaws. So instead of being the best shit ever, its good and bad at the same time.

Ah ok yeah CTF and the likes were what I was refering too. I'd actually love to see some mini games that take place inside the actual world itself without them being instanced. I was thinking more the way PvsP was one in WoW, with CTF/etc being in an instanced arena.

Aeinna
03-22-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm gonna have to come in here and be the different one. I like instanced areas. Whether it be like GW or just dungeon's like WoW. I just want to go out and kill shit, don't really care if its a big world or an instanced area. All it needs is to have enough variety of instanced area or world to make it not boring. Thats why I haven't played Aika again. It is a really fun game, with great pvp so far but it is all damn quests. Now the quests are better than WoW and other games, with funny dialog and you get a crap load of them and kill stuff for an hour before you go back to turn them in but it is still quests.

This is why I am REALLY looking forward to the Torchlight MMO. If it plays exactly like the single player game as they have stated, oh hell will it be fun. Log on, kill shit, get fat loots, gamble, fish but never feel left behind. Never have to run to town to get a skill or turn in a quest if you don't want to. God, I hope they don't ruin it.

Garal
03-22-2010, 07:59 PM
This is why I need dyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/alex5300/ScreenShots/sshot055.jpg

Warrsong
03-23-2010, 05:54 AM
As for the first post, I'd recommend Oblivion. It's not free, but you level up your skills by using them, so when you slash a mob with a sword, your sword skill goes up. The game levels with you, so you can go kill anything you want. You don't have to do the quests in it, they don't provide any experience. Just items and gold.

Marou
03-23-2010, 06:19 AM
I have Oblivion, Morrowind, Dragon Age, Fallout 2, 3, the Witcher, KoToR, etc. I have good single player RPG's in spades. Thats not what I'm looking for when I ask for a good MMO lacking certain WoW-esque properties.

Ensley
03-23-2010, 07:35 AM
With the death of DAoC, WoW is the last game available that you can play and be successful at making people mad, and that's why I play it. From 5 man heroics to 25 man raids, from BGs to arena to open world pvp, there are enough ways to make people QQ that it's worth my money. The amount of neckbeard basement rejects that play this game is mind boggling.

As far as 'quest grinding', the game is such a watered-down retard mode of what it once was that it really is laughable. You can go from level 1 to fully geared in PvE and PvP sets in a month, and you don't have to play all day every day to do it either.

Also, @ Boxy - why don't you ever log on MSN???

Andile™
03-23-2010, 08:56 AM
With the death of DAoC, WoW is the last game available that you can play and be successful at making people mad...

D2 bm dueling. It's like free therapy.

Boxy Brown
03-23-2010, 09:27 AM
Also, @ Boxy - why don't you ever log on MSN???

I just did.

Sillywilly
03-23-2010, 11:26 AM
neckbeard basement rejects that play this game is mind boggling.




LMAO neckbeard basement rejects is win.

Taoist
04-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I liked 'camps' because of the social joking and casual play. Instances you have to constantly move and pay attention, I guess I like going semi afk alot....

I HATE quests in MMO's always have for some reason.

Boxy Brown
04-05-2010, 05:07 PM
I liked 'camps' because of the social joking and casual play. Instances you have to constantly move and pay attention, I guess I like jerking it alot....
.

Fixed.

xeraseth
04-05-2010, 05:42 PM
I am going to press the issue with Boxy, you should try Ulgard. I started a Shaman and I have found a group from lvl 4 to 17 (where I am now), they were mostly duo, trios but it was still awesome. The biggest problem is that 40-50 grind that is going to suck.

Andile™
04-06-2010, 06:42 AM
Wait a sec - has everyone moved to Mid??

Boxy Brown
04-06-2010, 08:52 AM
No.

Me and age are on hib. Someone told me that warden's were oldschool without shield spec or celerity or hots and that was all I needed to hear. 15 on the warden now.

Andile™
04-06-2010, 09:52 AM
No.

Me and age are on hib. Someone told me that warden's were oldschool without shield spec or celerity or hots and that was all I needed to hear. 15 on the warden now.

Damn yous.

Taoist
04-06-2010, 10:15 AM
Whenever I see someone talking about DAoC I think about playing it again 6-7 years later....

Could get a good semi afk jerk going at Hib fins camp, good times right Boxy

Boxy Brown
04-06-2010, 12:04 PM
Fins + Porn = my middle school life.