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Thread: SWTOR review.

  1. #1
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    Default SWTOR review.

    I didn't get to play the game as much as I would have liked this weekend but I did play some. I am going to be brief but I will answer questions if anyone has them, assuming I know the answer of course.

    I am going to skip straight to gameplay and ignore stuff like character customization, graphics, animations, and that sort of thing, only because I am not sure you all are interested in that. I will answer questions related to it if asked though.

    Gameplay:

    The game is like wow. If you hate wow, or are tired of its combat system, then you won't like SWTOR, simple as that. It has a hotbar with abilities, and a GCD when you use them. That said, calling it wow with lightsabers is a bit too simplistic. The classes I played, bounty hunter mostly with a bit of imperial agent, feel entirely different than anything in wow. Plus, the removal of auto attack makes a bigger impact on how the game feels to play than I expected it would. The best I can think to describe it is that it is kind of like playing WoW, but with entirely new and different classes with different class mechanics.

    Based on the abilities I saw at low levels there doesn't seem to be much spammable CC like polymorph/fear. All the CC abilities I saw had cooldowns. One of the cooler ones is a flash grenade type thing for the imperial agent. It is an aoe incapacitate effect that breaks on damage and lasts for 8 seconds with a 1 minute cooldown. Bounty hunter had a similar ability, it was a single target dart that you shoot and it was an 8 sec incapacitate with a 20 second cooldown.

    Players seem to do very little damage in comparison to player character's max health. at around level 5 or so the biggest burst I could line up with my imperial agent was about 250-300 damage and I think my max health at the time was 1500 or so. Where as in wow my abilities tend to be able to one shot myself at low levels.

    Mobs on the other hand have a lot less health than players. Mobs tend to come in packs as well. Often there will be 2-3 extra trashy mobs with 200 or so hp and one slightly tougher mob in the pack with 500-600 hp. Most of the time the mobs you kill have much less than half your total health. I wonder if this is bioware trying to get around the need for a resilience type stat.

    Story and shit:

    Edit: I should probably mention that I suspect that my opinion on the story and stuff is artificially elevated simply because its not something that I expect from an mmo, and if this were a single player game that my opinion on it wouldn't be nearly as high.

    The main hook of this game though, is the story based experience. IMO, bioware hit the nail on the head with this part of their game. It is easy to forget that you are even playing an mmo while playing this game. The storyline for the quests are interesting, and the voice acting and dialogue options make it effortless to follow.

    Not only that, but you get to be more involved in the story by making decisions on how to carry out the quest. The option for choice comes along a lot more often than I thought it would, with pretty much every quest having 2 ways to complete it. Sure, the options can be pretty black and white at times, but I found the black, which is what I tended to do, to be very satisfying.

    Towards the end of the origin world, you pick up a companion. I only got this far with the bounty hunter, and at least for that class, you can start to involve your companion in dialogue with other npcs. She even jumped into a few conversations of her own accord. I believe there are multiple companions available for each class, and it could make things interesting if you have different dialogue available depending on which companion you take with you. One thing I was slightly disapointed with the companion system was that, I tried to talk with her, and apparently there was no conversation available. However, she does say, "We'll talk later." which does give me hope that at least occasionally there will be optional conversations you can have with your companions.

    You can customize your companion's gear too. They seem to be able to equip anything you can equip, assuming that they have the required armor proficiency. What this means is that it doesn't seem like there is seperate companion armor. However, the gear your companion starts with says "Mako only," Mako being the name of companion character in question, so it could be there are items that can only be worn by your companion, or it could just be that its only the starter gear they don't want you to equip. In addition there is a special slot on your companion where you can put items to change the look of the companion character themself. I got one as a quest reward and the change was pretty dramatic. It looked like a completely different person, it wasn't just a change in hairstyle or something like that.

    Classes:

    Imperial Agent

    Before I played the game, the imperial agent was the class that I was most interested in trying out. I figured it would be squishy, high damage, and have good CC, but I was also concerned that the cover mechanic wouldn't be very good in pvp. It isn't as squishy as I thought it would be, though it isn't as tough on its own as the bounty hunter is. It wears medium armor, and has a decent amount of health so it can take hits pretty well even outside of cover. In cover the agent takes much less damage than even the bounty hunter did, and gets access to abilities that are only usable in cover. I only had one ability that was usable from cover for the level I played at, and it was called snipe. It was a 2 second cast shot that did pretty good damage, but it only did slightly more damage than an instant cast shot that I had that was usable both in cover and outside of cover. It was great for bursting down one enemy before the fight started but the difference in offensive power inside of cover compared to outside of cover didn't even compare to the difference in defense. Cover is relatively common while questing, though occassionally there are times where you will have to take a few seconds to get in position if you want to start on a group of mobs from cover which can be annoying.

    The damage an agent did was really good, it felt a lot more bursty than the bounty hunter though the overall damage seemed pretty similar, with the agent probably doing a bit more overall. There was good variety in the way damage was dealt, using a pretty even mix of sniper shots from cover, a high damage power shot, and the basic attack which provided an enjoyable mix of animations as well, with the basic attack being a small flurry of fire opposed to the other two being one big shot. You also had a DoT in the form of a poisoned dart, and an aoe attack in the form of a frag grenade.

    The CC available was pretty decent for a low level, and incapacitating a group of 4-5 enemies with the flashbang grenade and taking half of them down with snipe+power shot bursts before they could even shoot back was lots of fun. If any of the enemies got close you could do a melee range 4 second stun and either blast them with your rifle or shiv them with your vibroblade.

    Still cover is a bit of a concern for me. I was glad to see that the damage you deal from cover wasn't really much more than dealt from outside of cover(at least before level 10), but the amount of damage mitigated by cover seems to be a pretty big deal, and I just don't see how a class that has to limit its mobility to 0 to be at maximum effectiveness can be viable in pvp, especially against the lightsaber classes. I am hoping that one of the agent advanced classes, probably operative, doesn't have much use for cover, so at least one agent advanced class can be useful in pvp.

    Bounty Hunter

    Coming into the game the bounty hunter was my second choice, but since playing the game it has become my first choice. The bounty hunter is heavily armored and heavily armed with more gadgets than batman, well maybe not more than batman, but it has a lot of gadgets. The bounty hunter plays a lot different than the agent, there is no cover mechanic to discourage you from running and gunning and you have the heavy armor needed to take the extra hits from not being in cover.

    You start out with your basic attack which shoots a flurry of lasers from your pistol, a wrist rocket attack, and I think rocket punch as well(if not at level one then at level two.) The wrist rocket doesn't do much more damage than your basic attack, but it knocks enemies back(which you can use to knock people out of cover as well), and if they are weak enemies it knocks them down as well. It makes fighting weak enemies really cheese because you can just spam knock them down until you overheat, which is the bounty hunter resource. You build up heat with your attacks and once it caps out you have to wait to cool down a bit before you can use abilities again, or you can use a 2 minute cooldown called, vent heat, which lowers your heat by a certain amount. Rocket punch is pretty fun ability to use as well, it has a 6 second or so cooldown, and you do a Ryu(streetfighter) style uppercut while setting off your jet pack for a little bit of extra force.

    Later on you get other abilities like flamethrower which is a channeled cone area of effect attack that does quite a bit of damage. A 3 second channeled ability that fires off a bunch of shots from your pistol that does a stupid amount of damage and stuns your target for the duration. A dart attack that incapacitates your enemy for 8 seconds much like the agent's flashbang ability but single target with a much lower cooldown. Death from above which is a 1 minute cooldown ability that makes you float in the air and rain down heavy fire on an area, seems like it could be used as a pretty good defensive cooldown against force users as well.
    Last edited by Stalis; 09-06-2011 at 09:41 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    You can talk with your companions in the cantina or on your ship when you get it. Some of them require the ship (mid 20's).

    As far as equipping companions, you're correct and they can equip basically anything as long as it fits the class of the companion. I say "basically" because I never personally encountered anything they -couldn't- equip if it was appropriate for their class, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some that aren't allowed at higher levels. You do run across optional quest rewards from time to time for companion-specific gear, but (up to level 30) it wasn't anything particularly noteworthy.

    When you get to Dromund Kass or w/e the Sith capital is called, you can get tradeskills and the companion can work the trades for you, which is pretty convenient. Make sure you grab that early if you want to get the jump on crafting and not fall behind the level/usability curve later on for gathering/crafting.

    Companions being involved in conversation seems to just influence your relationship with them, I never encountered anything that actually changed the outcome of quests other than sometimes having more opportunities to gain lightside/darkside points - for example the Sith Warrior gets a slave as their companion, and if you keep her around constantly, a lot of opportunities turn up to remove her shock collar or shock her - I always shocked her, every time - racked up a lot more darkside points that I wouldn't have gotten if I didn't have her around. As far as story influence, I don't think they impact it - but I imagine the rapport you have with them (their "Affection" rating for you) probably has something to do with either their performance in combat/crafting or perhaps you get special quests available at certain tiers of Affection.
    Last edited by Draconian; 09-06-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Sith Inquisitor

    I didn't spend as much time on the lightsaber wielders but I'll try and give my impression of them as well.

    The sith inquisitor is a light armor wearing force user that uses a mix of ranged attacks and melee attacks, at least until you pick an advanced class where I think you begin to specialize in ranged as a sorcerer or melee as an assassin. Despite the light armor, inquisitor didn't feel much squishier than an agent outside of cover, if at all.

    The variety of damage dealing abilities was pretty good. The basic attack is a lightsaber attack, and you get an instant cast lightning attack with a 6 sec cooldown that stuns normal/weak enemies for 2 seconds to start with. The damage was excellent, likely the best out of all the 4 base classes.

    The inquisitor has the longest cc i've seen so far in the game, it has a 1 minute cooldown with a 1 minute duration and a pretty long cast time, and it breaks on damage. I imagine it probably has a shorter duration in pvp though.

    Sith warrior

    Sith warriors I think use medium armor at first, with the juggernaught advanced class getting access to heavy armor later on.

    Sith warriors had a basic lightsaber attack that builds 2 rage, and also a pretty strong single target attack that costs 3 rage to start out with. They get a force leap ability too that jumps you to the target and roots the enemy in place for a second or two and gives you 3 rage. They have an aoe stun and damage ability that stuns for a short time and does quite a bit of damage on a fairly short cooldown, 6-10 seconds can't remember exactly. They get an ability that reduces their targets armor on a 5 sec or so cooldown that also generates rage and stacks up to 5 times.

    They didn't have any CC that I saw besides the short duration stuns and immobilizes. They seemed like a fun class though, and the lightsaber animations, for both the sith actually, were really awesome.

    My view on the game and purchasing plans

    Well, my thoughts on the game before going into it is that it would be like WoW but not as good, maybe have an interesting story, but the gameplay and combat wouldn't hold up against WoW.

    My thoughts haven't changed that much. I still think that WoW is the better game in the end, but I was blown away at how fun SWTOR was to play. I did not expect it to feel as much like a single player game in the quality of the questing and options available to the player as it did. Once that experience is over though, I think that I might find myself wondering why I am playing Star wars over warcraft, because I expect that WoW will have better endgame pvp and probably pve as well, though I don't really participate in wow pve. And for some reason I can't really explain or put facts behind, WoW combat still feels like a more polished product, it could have just been my unfamiliarity with swtor, or maybe the beta lag but I just had the feeling that WoW felt smoother.

    I will probably buy the game anyways though, if for no other reason than to see the storyline for a couple classes. The good news about that for bioware is that hook should be able to give them some time to prove to me that their game can stand up to wow in endgame content and gameplay.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    What is the effect of gaining lightside or darkside points?
    -Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

    -"Personally, I play a warlock to set people on fire as they run in fear while I steal their souls. As an added perk, I play an undead warlock so I can eat their brains afterwards. I suppose a better question is, why do people play anything else?" (Unknown WoW forum poster)

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    No auto attack and mob clusters makes the combat sound more like City of Heroes. Would that be accurate?

    Also, I'm wondering the same thing as Alex. If I'm Republic and constantly take the "dark" path, what effect does that have on my character progression, relationships and destination?

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziel View Post
    No auto attack and mob clusters makes the combat sound more like City of Heroes. Would that be accurate?
    CoH didn't have a GCD, but I guess it had animation times.
    If I think of the game like that instead of WoW maybe I could try a trail.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Yes, the game plays more like coh imo, than WOW. Will say more later
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  8. #8
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    What is the effect of gaining lightside or darkside points?
    I'm not sure. You do have a lightside/darkside bar in your character sheet. It tells you how many of both points you have earned as well as your net total, with lightside being positive and darkside negative. For example it looks something like...

    Light: +150
    Dark: -750
    Alignment: -600

    I think I saw something like next tier at -1000 or something along those lines, so maybe you get an effect from it at certain 'levels.' Whatever it does, I don't think it would make sense to have it give you a combat advantage. Maybe it affects your 'reputation' with certain smaller factions within your larger faction of empire vs republic or something like that. I really couldn't say.

    No auto attack and mob clusters makes the combat sound more like City of Heroes. Would that be accurate?
    I never played City of Heroes, so I looked up some gameplay videos on youtube, and it does seem pretty similar. What I can say is that mobs being grouped up with each other and not having auto attack does make it feel different than wow.

    Also, I'm wondering the same thing as Alex. If I'm Republic and constantly take the "dark" path, what effect does that have on my character progression, relationships and destination?
    I didn't really get too far in the game, so I can't really say about character progression. I did have a companion long enough to make a few lightside and darkside choices, and this particular companion seemed to gain or lose affection from both choice types, so I think companions might have motivations deeper than lightside/darkside. In this case it seemed she liked anything that resulted in us making money.

    Another thing to note is that as republic you can make darkside choices that end up affecting the republic in a positive way, and lightside choices that hurt the republic. So faction loyalty isn't neccessarily tied to lightside/darkside. I don't see any fault in that system as far as the two non-jedi classes go, but I do wonder how it will work out for jedi. Will the jedi council notice your fall to the darkside and react to it? Or remain woefully ignorant? I couldn't tell you at this point, but I do hope alignment has an effect on your story, particularly as a jedi.

    CoH didn't have a GCD, but I guess it had animation times.
    If I think of the game like that instead of WoW maybe I could try a trail.
    I don't know. If you really hated WoW combat it would be hard for me to see you liking SWTOR. Unless you specifically hated auto attack.
    Last edited by Stalis; 09-07-2011 at 12:34 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    I'd like to note that I love this game and WILL be playing at release.

    Lightside/darkside effect your cosmetics, and which gear you can equip. Also, naturally it effects your story.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Did you play the operative Zavon? If so how dependent on cover is it, or just how good do you think it will be in pvp in general?

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Yeah played IA to level 12. Still working on it too. I've played several other classes too.

    The IA is only cover dependent if you go the sniper route. The operative plays more like a witch hunter in WAR. Though I still found cover useful to deflect ranged attacks. In pvp, I felt bad ass as a IA. With agood position, I was able to wreck havoc on the other team in several matches. It will be really op in pvp with a smart player imo
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    That sounds pretty good. Maybe there is still hope for the agent after all.

    You sound pretty confident in the game. Since I've played it, it has been harder for me to play WoW, but I'm not sure if that's just new game syndrome or not.

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Yeah, the thing is I just know what I like. The game definitely has it's flaws, but I'm a sucker for a good story. I feel like WOW is an MMO, but Swtor isan mmorpg. It is without a doubt an rpg, that you can get together with a few friends and play--or solo with you companions. I loved the IA story, and that of all the other classes I played. I loved talking to the crazy quest givers and the moral dilemmas. I loved exploring the planetsides for datacroms and other misc stuff I might find. Will all that get boring after a while? Sure, but I'll damn sure enjoy the ride until I do.

    It's damn flawed logic imo, to look at the end result and judge accordingly. It's like saying, we're all gonna die so I'm going to just kill myself. Gamers seem to so that a lot lately....


    Anyone that loved KOTOR 1 + 2, wil love this game. You have to be dying to know what happens at the great hunt as I do
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  14. #14

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Anyone that loved KOTOR 1 + 2, wil love this game. You have to be dying to know what happens at the great hunt as I do
    Disagree. Loved the KOTOR games. Played the SW:TOR beta. Not interested.

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    What? Why Valec? That game is a KOTOR game through and through!
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    It's damn flawed logic imo, to look at the end result and judge accordingly. It's like saying, we're all gonna die so I'm going to just kill myself. Gamers seem to so that a lot lately....


    Anyone that loved KOTOR 1 + 2, wil love this game. You have to be dying to know what happens at the great hunt as I do
    I'll definitely at least play the game until I get tired of the story since that part of it is amazing, but I demand a lot from mmos. Other games are just momentary breaks from my mmo playing, so for swtor to become 'my new mmo' it has to have staying power in the endgame.

    So it's not that I won't play it at all if it doesn't have good endgame, it just won't be my main game.

    Also, yea I am really interested to see what happens at the great hunt. ;p

  18. #18

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valec
    Disagree. Loved the KOTOR games. Played the SW:TOR beta. Not interested.
    I'm on the same page as Valec. I'm so over WoW gameplay that it doesn't really matter what they do, that alone will kill it for me. Kinda like a redo of Super Mario 3 with Trine graphics wouldn't capture my attention. Even if they added different types of mushrooms and I played a construction worker instead of a plumber. Also, this should be in news, fixing.
    "Go to work, send your kids to school, follow fashion, act normal, walk on the pavement, watch TV, save for old age, obey the law. Repeat after me: I am free."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    It's my experience that it plays more like a Kotor game you can't pause, with a slightly longer leveling curve, and less time til your character acts after pushing a skill. More so than WOW.

    Hell, even the classic "class roles" feel more like guide lines then roles. Its really weird. I need to see if that changes later on. I'm sure it wil.

    I can't WAIT to open world pvp with my companions. Shit will be SO ca$h
    Last edited by Zavon; 09-08-2011 at 01:56 PM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    If anyone is done with their beta account I wouldn't mind trying it out, if there is a way to download the client.
    -Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

    -"Personally, I play a warlock to set people on fire as they run in fear while I steal their souls. As an added perk, I play an undead warlock so I can eat their brains afterwards. I suppose a better question is, why do people play anything else?" (Unknown WoW forum poster)

  21. #21

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I'd like to note that I love this game and WILL be playing at release.

    Lightside/darkside effect your cosmetics, and which gear you can equip. Also, naturally it effects your story.
    Actually, LS/DS have NO affect on your story. There are no consequences to the decisions you make, as there is one, pre-defined story for each class. There are some different outcomes for individual quests, but the overall story is not affected.

    Think about it, how difficult would it be to manage multiple branches of one story? Unfortunately, BW's reliance on a "story" means there's no variance in the questing path. It's very linear.

    So, LS/DS ends up only being a requirement for gear, much like faction rep. Pretty sad really.

    Or so I've heard.
    Last edited by Gahgoots; 11-01-2011 at 12:00 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gahgoots View Post
    Actually, LS/DS have NO affect on your story. There are no consequences to the decisions you make, as there is one, pre-defined story for each class. There are some different outcomes for individual quests, but the overall story is not affected.

    Think about it, how difficult would it be to manage multiple branches of one story? Unfortunately, BW's reliance on a "story" means there's no variance in the questing path. It's very linear.

    So, LS/DS ends up only being a requirement for gear, much like faction rep. Pretty sad really.

    Or so I've heard.
    That's pretty funny, actually. Makes me think of playing Dragon Warrior for the first time on my NES. The king said, "You must go rescue the princess!". You could say, "Ok" or "No", and if you said "No" he would just say, "But you must!" infinitely.
    "Go to work, send your kids to school, follow fashion, act normal, walk on the pavement, watch TV, save for old age, obey the law. Repeat after me: I am free."

  23. #23

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    I remember in that Rambo game it was similar. They gave you the meaningless choice.

  24. #24

    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    Well, the mass Beta weekend draws to a close for Star Wars: The Old Republic and it looks good. Not astounding, not bad. Just.... good. For some reason it is leaving me a little dissapointed, it looks like a good game should and undoubtedly will have a huge following, but it lacks that certain something extra, something to make it stand out. Maybe it's the interface that needs tweeked, as well as the lack of an auto attack being annoying, it just seems somewhat cumbersome trying to do normal attacks and special attacks at the same time as well as healing and keeping an eye on your companion. This makes the flow of combat stuttered and I found myself simply not attacking enough while teamed with other people because I was busy doing something else. I can see my mouse hating me after all those clicks to attack every time. Perhaps this is something I would get used to in time with more practice.
    Personally I like the story-on-rails style of thing with only minor changes from user choices, with the side quests picking up the slack for the more open world desires. It is something to be aware of though that to get anywhere in the game you have to follow the story to unlock places to go.
    The companion (think pet/sidekick) ability system is odd as well. Depending on a companion to work crafting and/or scavenging is quite annoying as they count towards part of your maximum party number, so if you want to scavenge materiels and you have a full party of real people you cant.
    Maybe it's because its still beta, but the lack of clear in-game instruction in some of the more complicated areas of the game make you feel a little confused as to how to do things as well. For instance, summoning your companion is relegated to a tiny icon on your companion panel. The amount of people on the chat system asking how to summon them was huge.
    There are a few glitches and crashes, but as it is still a beta, this can be expected.... yet with less than a month to release, it's going to be buggy when it hits the shelves, there are just too many (admittedly fairly minor) fixes and tweeks that need to be done in time. Another issue in the Beta is the Europe/English servers were insanely crowded with a wait of maybe 30 mins to get on at its peak.
    But despite all that it has potential to be quite a good game, with a good strong storyline (for an mmo) to draw you in, plenty of side quests and a minimal amount of deliberate grinding to bore you (you do grind, but it is usually incidental during side quests so you are less aware you are doing it) it quickly becomes addictive and the early levels (and hours) just roll past. Given current trends away from pay to play I'm not sure that it will be worth paying a subscription to though.
    So I would give it an 8.5 out of 10 with the 0.5 extra as a little forgiveness due to Beta status and on the presumption that a lot of the bugs get fixed. Maybe a couple of months after release it will grow into something more playable.

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    Default Re: SWTOR review.

    I remember the days when games could get review scores of 1 through 6...
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