View Poll Results: What is your plan for Swtor?

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  • Beta'd Will play Swtor

    6 27.27%
  • Beta'd Won't play Swtor

    5 22.73%
  • Didn't Beta will play

    1 4.55%
  • Didn't Beta won't play

    10 45.45%
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Is it just me or did I see that the RP servers in this game will not enforce any kind of naming policy?
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Pre-ordering now. Gonna troll some sith.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    I've switched over to Sanctum of the Exalted full time. I can't stand those server queues for Lord Ardass. Even though I really enjoyed my Trooper there, I just can't justify waiting 20 minutes just to log into the game every time I want to play
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I can't stand those server queues for Lord Ardass.
    I'm guessing the jokes have already been made.
    It's going to be a fine day tomorrow. We will have salad...

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Boxy Brown View Post
    Pre-ordering now. Gonna troll some sith.
    Good decision. This game is mind blowing. The story could easily be the Elder Scrolls: Star Wars Edition. There is no doubt in my mind the story could be a stand alone game in itself. I just started doing space combat and I've run several missions multiple times just for the fun of it. I'm guessing that player ships end up kind of like player housing. I have a vault in my ship, my 3 companions are all actively doing something in the ship, it's HUGE inside and I can upgrade the weapons/armor 'n stuff on my ship for the space combat missions. It's also cool how you sit in the cock pit and use a hologram map of the galaxy to navigate.

    This game has completely drawn me in a few categories:

    -Combat
    -Atmosphere
    -Story
    -Attention to detail in both form(cosmetic) and functional aspects of the game.
    -Launch polish and execution.
    -I guess I could also add "mini games" or whatever the space combat could be called. It's just plain fun and a cool distraction from regular 3rd person lightsaber play.
    -Oh oh remembered another one. The companion system is pure win. Having a Padawan as a jedi is a must. Everything from how they participate in combat to having complete control over their gear is straight awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I've switched over to Sanctum of the Exalted full time. I can't stand those server queues for Lord Ardass. Even though I really enjoyed my Trooper there, I just can't justify waiting 20 minutes just to log into the game every time I want to play
    Yeah I'm lucky because I'm off peak hours due to being in Norway. However I chose a heavily populated server because if population takes any kind of dip after the first month I don't want to have to do the whole Warhammer thing of going from server to server to server. Honestly I don't think that's going to be a problem with this game though. I'd imagine population picks up rather than declines. It's just that freaking good. However take heart Zavon. Word is the servers are still set to beta population limits as far as cap goes so it shouldn't be long before the que times are remedied.
    Last edited by Sillywilly; 12-20-2011 at 04:30 AM.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  6. #56

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillywilly View Post
    Good decision. This game is mind blowing. The story could easily be the Elder Scrolls: Star Wars Edition.
    So, the world is so well simulated that you can lollygag around without even touching any quests and have alot of fun/advance your character? This is something I hadn't heard anyone say at all. I'll admit I got a very different picture from all the gameplay I was linked to. If you could elaborate I'd appreciate it, because a lack of world simulation aspects and forced quest progression + instancing has been the bane of modern MMO's over old ones in my opinion.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    So, the world is so well simulated that you can lollygag around without even touching any quests and have alot of fun/advance your character? This is something I hadn't heard anyone say at all. I'll admit I got a very different picture from all the gameplay I was linked to. If you could elaborate I'd appreciate it, because a lack of world simulation aspects and forced quest progression + instancing has been the bane of modern MMO's over old ones in my opinion.
    Silly is full of shit as usual.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    So, the world is so well simulated that you can lollygag around without even touching any quests and have alot of fun/advance your character? This is something I hadn't heard anyone say at all. I'll admit I got a very different picture from all the gameplay I was linked to. If you could elaborate I'd appreciate it, because a lack of world simulation aspects and forced quest progression + instancing has been the bane of modern MMO's over old ones in my opinion.
    Notice I said the storyline, IE the story lines and immersion in the quests are on par with ES. I can't comment so much about the getting lost and wandering because that's something that never really turned me on in the Elder Scrolls series. I'm having alot of fun exploring the world though, it definitely has that "oh I wonder what that place looks like" feel. There's wilderness areas, underground areas, city ruins being overcome by wilderness, and even underground city ruins being overcome by wilderness lol. The only games that I've had as much fun exploring and traveling in are DAOC and LotRO. Both of those games I felt did a very good job of making you wonder what's over that next ridge or made me want to go over into that next area that I could see on the world map. So far SWtOR has done the same for me.

    It's not quite open world per say, there is very little instancing except sometimes in the main story line you'll walk through some lighting in a doorway that only you will be in on the otherside. These are the parts that are directly connected to the main or major quest lines. Obviously you have to do some loading to go from planet to planet, etc but it doesn't feel as burdensome or as immersion breaking as walking into a door to a tomb with a blue screen in the doorway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graveworm View Post
    Silly is full of shit as usual.
    Awwwww I'm sorry. Does the potential filled and well executed Star Wars the Old Republic threaten your asperges obsession with Istancing Wars 2? I mean Guild Wars 2?

    ------------------------------------------

    What also trips me out is this game has a shit ton of RP servers in various forms and the antiRP faggots were in the forums talking about how RP is such a small niche, etc, etc. yet nearly every single RP server has a FULL status right now with a que where as there's like 15 regular servers on the list right now with "light" populations.
    Last edited by Sillywilly; 12-20-2011 at 07:43 AM.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  9. #59

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillywilly View Post
    Notice I said the storyline, IE the story lines and immersion in the quests are on par with ES. I can't comment so much about the getting lost and wandering because that's something that never really turned me on in the Elder Scrolls series. I'm having alot of fun exploring the world though, it definitely has that "oh I wonder what that place looks like" feel. There's wilderness areas, underground areas, city ruins being overcome by wilderness, and even underground city ruins being overcome by wilderness lol. The only games that I've had as much fun exploring and traveling in are DAOC and LotRO. Both of those games I felt did a very good job of making you wonder what's over that next ridge or made me want to go over into that next area that I could see on the world map. So far SWtOR has done the same for me.
    Do NPC's and creatures have non combat AI, or do they act as animated quest dispensers/objects and just loiter in a 25x25 area waiting on you to happen by? AI in MMO's has really gone downhill since the UO days, back when we had advanced precursor technology and could simulate stuff a little bit.

    i.e. Is there any type of ecosystem? Can you happen upon any interesting emergent behavior like an NPC getting robbed, or a contingent of republic NPCs fighting empire NPCs? Do creatures eat/attack/forage? Are there any world simulation aspects? Or, is it a WoW-like dead-zone where everything loiters and has no AI outside combat? Perhaps they have they innovated back in time to AC/UO/Mud days? If the latter you have captured my interest and further research is needed.

    One of my favorite things to do in Skyrim is follow NPCs to see whats happening. Like if you follow Vigilants of Stendarr who hunt undead and daedra eventually they will lead you to vampire and/or necromancer lairs you probably would have never come across otherwise; some of which have non-quest stories tied to them. By the same token if you follow a stormcloak patrol they will often end up in pitched battles against imperial forces. They have some pretty advanced non-combat AI and motivations; and their hijinks are a large part of what pushes Skyrim far past it's predecessors in immersion factor by making the world feel alive. Nothing says immersion like a dragon attacking General Tullius as he gives a victory speech over the stormcloaks (amusingly when the dragon was dead he continued his speech but all the soldiers were just gawking over the dead dragon, way to steal his thunder).

    --------------------------
    /edit: Boxchat paste since Zavon disappeared; perhaps someone else playing can enlighten me.

    20-12, 09:36 Marou
    After you've done it, sitcoms are over

    20-12, 09:36 Marou
    it's a realization that's akin to noticing laugh tracks for the first time

    20-12, 09:35 Marou
    and only did to begin with because I wasn't aware of how desolate and sad the game worlds were until I tried to go off the beaten quest progression path

    20-12, 09:34 Marou
    without good AI and a "living" game world with history and secrets built into it, WoW-like stuff leaves me feeling really empty. Like I'm running on a treadmill to get to PvP. I understand alot of people like it, it just doesn't do it for me anymore...

    20-12, 09:33 Marou
    something I haven't had from a mainstream MMO in years

    20-12, 09:33 Marou
    I'm not asking any of this stuff to be rude, just any of these things could add the wonder of exploration and immersion back into MMO's for me

    20-12, 09:32 Marou
    Does the world tell any stories? Like you can find a guy shackled up who scratched a final message on the wall? Or a group of dead adventurers with a journal describing how they ended up where they are?

    20-12, 09:27 Marou
    With the 150M they've spent on SWTOR they should have at least been able to add metric shitloads of content, like way more than Skyrim's 300 dungeons. Is there a bunch of content? (outside of main quest stuff obviously)

    20-12, 09:23 Marou
    quest markers?

    20-12, 09:23 Zavon
    There are things like convos, gun fights, people around working on machinery etc

    20-12, 09:22 Marou
    That's one + for immersion anyways

    20-12, 09:22 Marou
    ah, they don't have quest markers/arrows?

    20-12, 09:22 Marou
    1 dimensional guys that can talk to me but otherwise have no purpose in existence just depresses me and reminds me I'm in a skinner box

    20-12, 09:22 Zavon
    No, it's no where near that complicated, there are way too many npcs for that. It'You'd never be able to find anything if they did

    20-12, 09:21 Marou
    it's the single largest factor in immersion to me, and why I've never gotten nearly as engaged by Bioware rpgs as most people seem to

    20-12, 09:21 Marou
    I had this brief glimmer when Silly brought up Skyrim that they may have given stuff AI (outside of combat)

    20-12, 09:20 Marou
    ah, disapointing

    20-12, 09:20 Zavon
    A quest giver usually stands there, mobs may patrol ? I dunno never psid much attention

    20-12, 09:19 Marou
    well, do they just sit around the same area all day? Or, do they have places to eat/sleep/jobs, etc?

    20-12, 09:19 Zavon
    No idea never done it

    20-12, 09:18 Marou
    if you shadow an NPC what do they do?

    20-12, 09:18 Zavon
    Yeah you pass by conversations all the time

    20-12, 09:17 Marou
    and have real motivations and things they do; like eat/sleep/argue/work, steal, etc

    20-12, 09:17 Marou
    yeah, that's what I'm getting at. They live outside of talking to you

    20-12, 09:16 Zavon
    Yeah, before I do though, what I mean by immersion is characters that are real and have emotion and action, a vibrant world, cinematic music, amazing cut scenes
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    I dunno Marou. I'll be the first to admit that finding the same bar tender there 24/7 is kinda immersion breaking, but then again is it immersive for there to be 10 people standing outside his personal home to pick up a quest? I think it's more likely that he just happens to be working everytime you come by than him allowing people to loiter outside his personal property. I think that's why the MMO formula is different than the ES single player RPGs.

    The story is very engaging in this game though. The voice overs have changed the face of questing for me forever and in fact that may be the only negative of this game so far, that it will only make my disdain for reading quest text even more apparent in future MMOs.

    You do come across wounded soldiers on the battle field with quests, you do find out people had ulterior motives for doing something, etc. Someones wife staged a kidnapping so he wouldn't know she left him for a Hutte, whatever lol. I played Both Oblivion and Skyrim and I have no problems getting immersed into this game. You can go back to her husband and tell him the truth, you can go back and lie to save his feelings, you do get to make quite a few choices along the way that while not "revolutionary" they do break up the monatany of the quest grind.

    The ship, kinda consider it mild housing but your house can get into fights.

    Jeez I can't really describe it lol. I won't tell you to go drop 60 bucks on something just because I'm in love with it. Especially this early on. But if there is ever a trial or something I absolutely command you to give it a try. I was as skeptical as anyone else and I have been completely won over despite my angst from being burned so much in the past. I think it's one of those games that looks OK on paper but just delivers a whole other awesome experience when you actually try it out.
    Last edited by Sillywilly; 12-20-2011 at 11:19 AM.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Called a way to a meeting:
    1. Yeah there are quest markers
    2. There are random quests all over that you can ond exploring areas. For instance I found some barrells of spice on hutta, and a quest chain started.
    3. Further encouraging exploration, are the datacrons. They are hidden pon the planets, and aLOY of fun is in finding them. There are also random quests you can get just for killing mobs.
    4. There is a lore codex, for reading about different things you encounter on the game. A lot of these are hidden in random places all over the planets.


    Edit: Also, what silly said about trying it. Watching it doesn't do the game justice.
    Last edited by Zavon; 12-20-2011 at 11:24 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillywilly View Post
    Awwwww I'm sorry. Does the potential filled and well executed Star Wars the Old Republic threaten your asperges obsession with Istancing Wars 2? I mean Guild Wars 2?
    Potential filled? ...lol. The game has some things going for it, but potential is literally not one of them.

    God damn this is like WoW all over again. Coincidentally it's practically the same game.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Oh my lord I'm loving this game.

    Trolled up a bounty hunter and I'm chotching all over the place. I just jizzed everywhere. I had 0 expectations for this game, then every single one of my friends and a few of you guys here said 'buy that shit' and I'm so glad I did.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    What server you on Boxy?
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  15. #65

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    I think I was misunderstood. I was describing emergent gameplay, AI, and simulation. Allow me to elaborate.

    I've walked from Windhelm to Winterhold over a dozen times. It's never been the same trip.

    One time someone tried to rob me. One time I came across some witches fighting a cave bear. One time a frightened woman was running down the road, I asked her what was wrong and she said she'd been being held hostage at a nearby bandit camp, but had escaped. I wished her well and then wolves ate her. One time an old orc told me he was looking for a good death, and I gave it to him. One time an assassin tried to kill me, I still don't know who hired them. One time a courier was walking along so I stole a letter from him. It spoke of an investment gone wrong because of resistance from previous denizens of a Fort being unable to be cleared out. One time I ran into a pilgrim who was travelling to visit the shrine of Azura. I could keep going for quite awhile...

    *NONE OF THIS WAS QUEST RELATED AT ALL*

    The whole point is: not knowing what lies over the hill you've already walked over a dozen times. Something being interesting the first time you do it is akin to a novel, even if it's a great novel reading it over and over again would get boring as hell. Something being interesting the 20th time you do it is a simulation, and has WAY more longevity. Is that more clear, and does that sort of factor exist at all? It exists in Bethesda RPG's, it existed in UO and to some extent in AC, it exists in Eve Online. Does it exist in SWTOR, or is the world completely static? Such an element being present would cause me to automatically reevaluate the merits of SWTOR since mainstream MMO developers stopped trying to make compelling worlds when WoW came on the scene. If Bioware with hundreds of millions of dollars tried to move beyond pure theme park, they could work wonders far beyond what any single player game could accomplish; and they could keep SWTOR fresh for extreme lengths of time. If they did, I'm all ears.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Yes and no. Clearly there aren't randomized encounters in an mmo, nor is there npc script advanced enough that you can follow it for an entire day to see if the npc jacks off st the same time everyday.

    That being said, every time I gave played through a zone again the experience has been different. I've found quests I missed, lore items, cool looking areas, and named mobs I didn't know existed. The world is very including of exploration, and it is something that I enjoy about it a lot--though it isb static
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  17. #67

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Yes and no. Clearly there aren't randomized encounters in an mmo, nor is there npc script advanced enough that you can follow it for an entire day to see if the npc jacks off st the same time everyday.
    And this is the crux of the problem with the industry, cause we had that stuff long before MMO's existed in MUDs, and we had it in the first gen MMO's. We haven't had it in any mainstream MMO since WoW. It's not a question of technology, because it's been there for a long time. It's a question of effort, and them seeing no value in this? Seriously?

    I know some people just want cool cutscenes with branching dialogue, where they press a button and "something awesome" happens. To them that's immersion. To me it's a slap in the face that say's we've given up on creating games and are just trying to...I'm not even sure but I don't like it, and I don't have a whole lot of fun with it. The fun I do have with "movie games" is the same type of fun I have watching a movie, it get's old fast even if it's good. It's not the type of thing that made me into a lifelong gamer.

    I didn't dream of interactive movies when I played Dragon Warrior, or gold box D&D games. Saints Row, Skyrim, Red Dead Redemption; those are the sorts of things I dreamed of.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    The game actually does try to do some of what you suggest via divergent quest lines, and large areas of exploration. Though I suspect it would be foolish to make a game so dynamic that you couldn't capitalize on expansion pack reliance.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Valec View Post
    Potential filled? ...lol. The game has some things going for it, but potential is literally not one of them.

    God damn this is like WoW all over again. Coincidentally it's practically the same game.
    Just fucking retarded. In other words, not surprising.

    If a WoWtard can't play any MMO without thinking it's a WoW Clone then that's the WoWtards problem. The less of that mentality in SWtOR the better for my part.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  20. #70

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillywilly View Post
    Just fucking retarded. In other words, not surprising.

    If a WoWtard can't play any MMO without thinking it's a WoW Clone then that's the WoWtards problem. The less of that mentality in SWtOR the better for my part.
    I'm not a WoWtard. I played EQ, DAOC, Shadowbane, EVE, and just about every MMO out there up until WoW released and then some afterward. SWTOR is the most WoW-like a clone can get. The developers even admit in multiple interviews that the game plays "pretty much like WoW." That you can't see how much of a clone it is, despite most everyone else telling you such, says to me that you're pulling the wool over your own eyes. You've developed such a distinct hatred for WoW that you'll shove your fingers in your ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA NOT WOW" anytime the subject is breached.

    Most people are perfectly fine with WoW-with-Lightsabers because most of the turn-off of World of Warcraft seemed to be its setting and art style. It's not surprising that people who didn't like WoW's graphics, humor, and style find SWTOR more engaging because that's all they've changed. The underlying mechanics of "put buttons on hotbar, hit button every 1.5s" are identical. Several abilities per class are identical to WoW abilities. The resource systems are nigh-identical to WoW's Rage and Energy.

    Then again, you're Sillywilly, who never lets the facts get in the way of his logic.
    Last edited by Ero Elohim; 12-20-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Swtor projections

    When did everyone get together and decide that gameplay was the only area open for innovation? That no matter what anyone else brings to the table, that dramatically different gameplay is the only criteria that will determine clone status?
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  22. #72

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    There are a bunch of things that determine clone status and they all have present to give the label.

    Same or very similar progression (100% questing and instanced dungeons)
    Same or very similar character makeup (talent trees, resources, level system, etc)
    Same or very similar controls (GCD's, no aiming, etc)
    Same or very similar PvP gameplay (instanced arenas, no meaningful world pvp, etc)
    Same or very similar PvE gameplay (no non-combat mob ai, wars of hp attrition since player aiming and evasion is dice controlled, aggro management)
    Same or very similar static world (No simulation elements, static theme park with a few random things loitering around as window dressing)
    Same or very similar end game (Heroic Dungeons/Raids/Instanced PvP)

    Only if something meets all of those criteria is it completely safe to call it total WoW clone. The perception that it is a WoW clone stems from the producers calling it a WoW-clone over and over again. If it significantly deviates from anything above, perhaps the producers were being unkind to it. It's why I was digging for info. I'd like it (not) to be a total WoW clone.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  23. #73

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    When did everyone get together and decide that gameplay was the only area open for innovation? That no matter what anyone else brings to the table, that dramatically different gameplay is the only criteria that will determine clone status?
    Because gameplay defines a game? Everything else is ancillary. Shadow of the Colossus and Dark Souls prove that you can almost completely eliminate story, dialogue, character interactions, and more, yet will stand as incredible games on their own. Heaping loads of cinematics and story onto a crappy game just proves that the developer should've made a movie instead.

    There's a good article about how SWTOR doesn't even do the story well, because it's seperated from the rest of the game. There's a clear line between Story Time and Game Time. I don't know. More and more, I'm coming to lean towards the integrated storytelling games like Metroid Prime, Half-Life, and Dark Souls use. You're never stopped and given a dialogue wheel. Hell, you're pretty much never stopped. Story elements take place around you and sometimes without you. You can piece the story together yourself, delve into it, and really find all the details, or you can just play the game without interruptions.

    Getting stopped every 15 minutes so I can have another 15 minutes of talky time with someone just suggests to me that the game needs a condensed script. It's worse because, in Bioware's single player games, the quests all make sense. They're put there to enrich the planets or areas you visit, provide backround information, or give you optional equipment and abilities. In SWTOR, most of the quests are there to be filler quests so you can level up. It's also using that hub-zone design that WoW used: You pick up all these quests, walk 10 feet away to the field where the objectives are, complete them, walk back. Single-player games use quests to give you a reason why you're mowing down everyone in a facility towards your real objective, be it the villain you're chasing, the next town over, or the super-weapon that'll win the war.

    In small words: SWTOR is like the uncanny valley of storytelling for me. It's not good enough or well-thought-out enough to really engross me, but it's too prevalent to ignore it. It sits right between minimalist highlights to the game and outright compelling narrative. It insults me by giving me three choices, but none of them are the ones I want to choose.

    Same or very similar progression (100% questing and instanced dungeons)
    Same or very similar character makeup (talent trees, resources, level system, etc)
    Same or very similar controls (GCD's, no aiming, etc)
    Same or very similar PvP gameplay (instanced arenas, no meaningful world pvp, etc)
    Same or very similar PvE gameplay (no non-combat mob ai, wars of hp attrition since player aiming and evasion is dice controlled, aggro management)
    Same or very similar static world (No simulation elements, static theme park with a few random things loitering around as window dressing)
    Same or very similar end game (Heroic Dungeons/Raids/Instanced PvP)
    1) Randomly killing enemies gives little experience. Quests and Flashpoints are the major sources of XP.

    2) All characters have either a Rogue-style Energy bar (100 max and quickly regens, though with the added caveat of regenning slower the lower it gets) or a Warrior-style Rage bar (max of 12 "Rage Points" and you gain 2 per use of your autoattack)

    3) 1.5s GCD combat. No autoattack, but you get a filler attack that fills much of the same purpose, as it's there to be used when your resources are dry.

    4) PvP is accessed at level 10 by a PvP button that queues you and teleports you to a Battlefield, which is an instanced area of 10-15 people fighting each other. The planet Illum is an open-world PvP frontier, but I didn't experience it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5HLbWntqL0 DAOC it isn't, though. More like a WAR RvR lake or WoW Alterac Valley.

    5) PvE's main difference is that you fight 3-4 enemies at once, City of Heroes style. It's very WoW in its difficulty level, essentially you can't die unless you go AFK for a few minutes in front of them. Once I got my companion, it could kill mob packs for me. I was doing group quests at level 8 with just me and my companion.

    6) One of the largest complaints in the beta was that the world felt dead. The capital cities are enormous, but I felt annoyed because they aren't full of interesting stuff, just more space to run across. I don't think I saw any neutral critters or people moving around doing stuff ever. Maybe one critter, but it was hard to tell because I one-shot everything on that planet, including it.

    7) The end-game seems to be focused on either doing Operations (i.e. Raids), Heroic Flashpoints (Heroic Dungeons), or Battlefields (instanced PvP). Sound familiar?
    Last edited by Ero Elohim; 12-20-2011 at 03:07 PM.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    4,149

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Well, that settles it then its official: daoc was a wow clone
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  25. #75

    Default Re: Swtor projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Well, that settles it then its official: daoc was a wow clone
    I never did any quests, instanced dungeons, or raids. I spent all my time in parties of random people I met solo'ing places I shouldn't and in the frontiers. Nice hyperbole though. PvE and controls were the similar enough, but it doesn't match in any other way.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

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