Legends of Grimrock

[Aeinna]

This game comes out Wednesday and finally just had to share. If watching this video doesn't make you excited, SCREW YOU!

[Valec]

This game comes out Wednesday and finally just had to share. If watching this video doesn't make you excited, SCREW YOU!

Watching that I got pretty excited.

Then I watched the combat and realized I could never play this piece of shit.

[Zavon]

The combat, though awful looking, is true to old school form (at least). I have to agree though that I couldn't play it like that. Why couldn't they have just gone the extra mile and made it play like hexen, while leaving the awesome exploration and puxzles?

[Draconian]

Niiiiiiiice! I love throwbacks. Been on an old-school kick lately. They fucked up Jagged Alliance: Back in Action enough to make me play JA2 again for weeks. This looks great, though!

I don't remember which games I specifically played that were like this, but when I was a kid I grew up in an Apple home, from the IIe on - but my neighbor's dad was way cooler than mine and was a C64 guy and my friend had an amiga. I remember playing dungeon crawl games a lot. I hope this has some elaborate puzzles once you get deeper into the levels.

[Norska]

Pre ordered this game right after Aeinna showed me this video. Looks gorgeous, is true to those old school roots plus the fact that (for preorder) it's only 12$ and they are releasing a map creator? Yes please. From what I read on the forum, these are basically "beginner puzzles" so I can imagine things will ramp up a bit Drac.

The combat actually grew on me. At first I was a little miffed it wasn't turn based, but that fight against the three skeletons really grabbed me. It was surprisingly tactical.

[Valec]

I'd actually eat this game alive if it had turn-based combat(which if I recall, most of these tile based dungeon crawlers were?). It just seems like a better system over all, especially when you add in the way the magic works.

[Sillywilly]

It's a WoW clone.
........................................

The only game I remember playing that was a dungeon crawler was a playstation or (ps2) game I can't remember which system. It was called "D" and had an elaborate story about how the girl (who you played) found how her dad was Dracula incarnate or something. It was a 1st person explorer type game in which you had to solve puzzles, find items that unlocked other items that got you through a door, etc. It was actually a fun game to play in the dark.

[Zoobi]

Yeah saw this when TB first put up his WTF is of it. I'll more than likely get it in the future when I get bored, but not buying it upon release.

[Alex Mars]

The first game like this that I saw was Descent to Undermountain, I didn't like that game due to it not being turn based. At that point I had only ever played the old D&D gold box games and text games like Zork and turn based was all I knew how to play, the notion of playing in real time was just too weird.

[Norska]

I'd actually eat this game alive if it had turn-based combat(which if I recall, most of these tile based dungeon crawlers were?). It just seems like a better system over all, especially when you add in the way the magic works.

I've seen in other gameplay videos what looks like quick casts for magic, the runes were already in place and all you had to do was bring up the rune screen and click attack. Sort of like a default selected spell? The cooldown between attacks also gives some breathing room. I could, however, see a party with more than one mage being very intense.

[Aeinna]

The first game like this that I saw was Descent to Undermountain, I didn't like that game due to it not being turn based. At that point I had only ever played the old D&D gold box games and text games like Zork and turn based was all I knew how to play, the notion of playing in real time was just too weird.

Man, Decent to Undermountain was the first rpg I ever played on the computer. I know (NOW) that people didn't like it, but I have great memories about that game and how much I loved playing it.

I saw this and all that came flooding back. Hopefully this game does well and ushers in a remaking/slightly modernizing of old style games.

[Draconian]

Downloading, so ready to nostalgia my ass off.

[Zavon]

Good! Let us know what you think. I'm on the fence still on this one. The combat is a huge turn off.

[Norska]

Hokay, so I've finished the first floor and I've got to say, game rocks. Loving everything about it. Combat works surprisingly well imo. It's very true to the Dungeon Master, which was also a real time dungeon crawl (as opposed to the Eye of the Beholder, which was turn based). Haven't tried to create my own party, I'm doing the first game as the default, which is normal difficulty, 2 war / 1 rog / 1 mage party and auto mapping turned on.

I'll turn off automapping, custiumize the party and up the difficulty on my 2nd playthrough.

Yes, there will be at least two playthroughs. Can't wait for the map creator to be released.

Edit: Forgot to mention, you can precast your first spell basically. That is, you can put in what runes you want, and then close the cast menu. When the next fight starts, and you open the cast menu back up the runes will still be preselected, so you can quickly cast the first spell. I've found no rushed feeling in fights yet, because each attack (depending on what the weapons speed is) initiates a cooldown for that character. It's very easy to cycle through your attacks and dodge in real time.

[Draconian]

Stopped at the stairs down to level 4, so completed 1-3 and I think I managed to find most of the secrets, but I'm not sure how many there are total and I don't wanna risk spoilers by looking it up. I got the achievement for 10 secrets early in the 3rd level, I believe. Already there have been a couple inventive secrets, even if they were easily surmountable they weren't exactly obvious - so I dig that and it seems to be ramping up nicely as I go. Hoping for some rage-inducing puzzles later on.


The combat does take a bit of getting used to, but once I got to level 3, I was forced to stop being lazy about it. Movement is an absolutely critical piece of combat, it's more about positioning and movement to get max damage and avoid taking hits once you get past the first few enemy types. Don't wanna spoil it but level 3 was a wakeup call on me being lazy in combat.

I'm running 1 Minotaur Warrior, a Lizardman or w/e it was Rogue, and then two mages in the back row, both insects, one is fire/ice one is air/earth. It's been working very very well.

Based on the skills you can get, I would've had no real issue so far I think, running 4 mages or 4 rogues if I really wanted to. For instance there is an entire staff line for mages which really amps up their durability, and I don't doubt you could run front row mages with it.


For casting, you just gotta be quick. I wish there were keyboard commands, but you just gotta be fast with the runes. One nice thing is that you can pre-load the runes for a spell and then drop the menu and keep walking and using the char as normal, so the first spellcast you use on a mage is always ready to be fired.

Before I had too many spells, I was swapping people in the ranks (front/back row) between swings and getting all 4 melee'ing with short range weapons (clubs, knives, etc). It worked pretty well - but once I got spells and the mobs got more interesting, it's all about movement, flanking, and timing. Situational awareness of the map around you is crucial as well, as you're usually flanking and moving blindly in backwards and sideways directions - if you aren't aware of the room and hallway layout, its very easy to back yourself into a corner and be forced to hack it out.


Anyway, loving it so far, totally worth the money even if I just do one playthrough, and happy to support this kind of development.



edit: Oh, and one thing I noticed - it seems like people in the back row get 1/2 as much xp as the front row if they didn't do anything in the fight. Once my casters started casting more and using reach weapons (hit from back row) - they have now surpassed my warrior a bit on xp.

[Zavon]

Alright guys. I'm trusting your opinion on this and getting it.

[Norska]

btw drac, if you hit esc in game there is an option on the menu list called "Statistics", one of the stats it gives is found/total secrets.

[Draconian]

ty sir

[Ero Elohim]

Loving the game. Got lazy on my saves, though, and lost a whole floor's worth of progress. Kinda pissed me off, I really expected the game to autosave at least on floor transitions.

[Norska]

Yeah, I've been bitten in the ass on saves a few times. It appears the only time the game autosaves is when you use the crystals, and they apear to be on every level. I'm at the start of 5, and they've been on 1-4 iirc,

[Ero Elohim]

I'm really tempted to try the game with four rogues. I wish there were more classes, though. I was a little shocked when it was only the Fighter, Rogue, Mage triumvirate.

[Valec]

Evade tank sounds like win if its really doable.

[Norska]

unarmed/dodge rogue does sound badass, it's like +80 evasion if you max out both skills.

Something tells me we'll be seeing a lot of expansions/mods for the game. They're already working on the map creator.

[Zavon]

I did two fighters, one rogue one mage. I'm seriously thinking about starting over and doing "One Fighter, One melee rogue, one ranged rogue, one mage".

[Ero Elohim]

My current party is Mino War, Lizard Rog, Human Rog, Bug Mage. The Mino is a straight Mace bruiser, the Lizardman is a melee Rogue/Tank, the Human is a bow Rogue, and the Mage is Air/Fire. The Lizardman doesn't take a whole lot of damage, and started the game with like 34 Evasion at level 1.

Question: There are no shops or anything, correct? There's no reason to carry around a bunch of extra loot, is there?