GA is pretty much the best sixth slot item you can get on an AD carry, but its buildup is awful.
The whole point is moot though, because if the game goes on long enough for people to start buying Veil, then I've failed as LeBlanc and we're probably going to lose anyway.
If it's forcing you to throw chains first, it's already doing a decent job. Avoid the chains - which seriously shouldn't be hard, they're one of the slowest projectiles in the game - and your initial Q is going to miss, meaning your followup Mimic won't proc the debuff. While Mimic>Distortion will still do a lot of damage, it won't one-shot anyone unless you're up 10 kills and are carrying around a 20 stack Mejai's.
As far as what Zoobi's saying, BV is insurance. Yes, it's best to just not get hit by the enemy's spells, but you can't avoid every Flash-Tibbers. If you position yourself out of range of those combos, you'll be sitting a screen away from your team. BV has a pretty powerful effect psychologically. It automatically makes you less of a target for larger spells, since nobody wants to waste a powerful spell on a shield. This usually means the enemy team will attempt to poke the shield off before making any moves, which puts them on the defensive except for small 45s windows if they manage to hit you.
But, like almost every item decision in a MOBA, you have to build based on what the enemy team is capable of. You don't build MR against a team of all AD carries, you don't build a QSS against a team without long disables, and you don't build a BV against a team that can easily poke the spellshield off.
2,715g for 50mr?
Cheap early game?
A Negation cloak is 48 by itself for 740... You're dropping 1K gold on combinations, until which you have to hold two items anyway.
The only thing you get in return while building it is the heal when you level, and you can get more HP/MP when you want it with pots for less gold than the combine cost of the catalyst. The only thing you get in return when you finally complete it, is one negated harass attack before they come burst you to death because they spent a similar amount of gold efficiently and their stats crush yours.
No. BV is an overpriced mid/late game counter-pick that you turn one of your negation cloaks into, not an early game item.
It is extremely overpriced for what it does, like I've been saying for the last three posts. If you're a toplane bruiser, a hexdrinker into maw is a better option for mr. If you're mid lane, you're going to go for chalice into athene's or abyssal scepter over banshee's veil any day because you waste precious stats on shit you don't need. If you're support, well you're never going to have enough gold for anything beyond oracles+gold/10+wards+support items(shurelya's, zeke's, aegis etc.). The only justification you can EVER make for getting banshee's veil is on a tank jungler, and even they have much better options than banshee's veil considering it's cost and what it does.
Such a pointless argument that you guys are making over an incredibly awful item.
Oooo... I might just get BV on Skarner...
Seriously, it has a defined purpose. Just because it's a niche item doesn't mean it's an awful item. You get it in a few situations: Their team has some serious initiation, a fed combo caster, or you're playing a champion who compounds well with a spellshield of their own and want to be damn near magic immune (Nocture, Sivir).
The item does not provide defense equal to the defense/offense an enemy can gain with the same gold. If you are backed into buying one in the early game, you already lost. You handed over gold advantage to a champ or team, who's damage output is already dictating your items.
No amount of assumption of what the opponent has or does changes that. All your arguments are just repeating an assumption that BV blocks something worthwhile rather than getting harassed off, and that one party in your story is better than the other. one is not dependent upon the other. You can be better AND not have a bad item build like rushing stats-inefficient late game counter pick item.
Last edited by VKhaun; 07-28-2012 at 03:28 PM.
You don't plan for the worst possible outcome, you plan for the best possible outcome when it comes to making item builds. I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that BV is not only extremely situational, but even in the situations its helpful it's not all that great. Regardless you're never going to accept that you're wrong on this matter so I'm done arguing with you.
And you keep arguing from this position of the game being a 1770's war where both teams line up and shoot at each other, so the 45s cooldown on Veil means it's worthless. I'd hate to be on your team if that's how you play.If blitzcrank grabs you and you have BV, oh shit he only has to wait 12 seconds for his next grab whereas you have to wait 45 for your spellshield to come back up... Regardless you're never going to accept that you're wrong on this matter so I'm done arguing with you.
Singed.This is the one and only example of an item being a good buy for a champion that you can ever pose.
Last edited by Ero Elohim; 07-28-2012 at 10:49 PM.
If you define "pushing" or "teamfights" as "stand there and take hits," I really need to spectate one of your games.
I never said anything about Ryze besides that I haven't seen him picked very often lately. I don't know why you decided to go on a mini-rant about his potential. I just tend to see more Ahri, Cassiopeia, or Morgana.
I'm actually not set that BV is super fantastic. Just that it's not worthless, awful, and not worth building in any circumstance. I called it a niche item, because that's what it is.
BV is like nullstone in HoN. If you're against Pyro or SR then it's great, but as soon as there's an armadon, VJ, witch slayer, or any other support who knows what they're doing, it becomes utterly useless.