LoL thread

[Ero Elohim]

Banshee's Veil is an awful item. They made it virtually unusuable a long time ago. Too easy to pop and 60 second cd. Le Blanc is okay against below average players, but she doesn't work well at even my elo because people are smart enough to build magic resist and then she's useless.

45s cooldown, tons of health and magic resist? Also has a really nice buildup by including Catalyst. It's pretty nice, though I think Guardian Angel is the better buy for a similar cost. Either pretty much screws up Leblanc.

[Zoobi]

45s cooldown, tons of health and magic resist? Also has a really nice buildup by including Catalyst. It's pretty nice, though I think Guardian Angel is the better buy for a similar cost. Either pretty much screws up Leblanc.

You're better off getting QSS and not wasting 900 gold on stats you don't need as an ad carry. It's all around a very awful item. GA is very situational as well, but at least its better at what it does.

[Ero Elohim]

You're better off getting QSS and not wasting 900 gold on stats you don't need as an ad carry. It's all around a very awful item. GA is very situational as well, but at least its better at what it does.

QSS fills a completely different niche. QSS is for shutting down disables. BV is for surviving nukes. Leblanc is a combo caster. By buying a BV, you're cutting her burst in half.

GA is pretty much the best sixth slot item you can get on an AD carry, but its buildup is awful.

[Zoobi]

QSS fills a completely different niche. QSS is for shutting down disables. BV is for surviving nukes. Leblanc is a combo caster. By buying a BV, you're cutting her burst in half.

GA is pretty much the best sixth slot item you can get on an AD carry, but its buildup is awful.

Yes BV is for surviving nukes, but it does its job so bad its not worth the gold it takes it takes to buy it. You're better off going QSS and positioning yourself better so you're not getting hit by the nukes and have a way to clear cc so you can get back to standing and shooting where you should be. There's a reason le blanc is rarely seen and its because she's so easy to outplay just by not positioning yourself badly.

[Boxy Brown]

QSS fills a completely different niche. QSS is for shutting down disables. BV is for surviving nukes. Leblanc is a combo caster. By buying a BV, you're cutting her burst in half.

GA is pretty much the best sixth slot item you can get on an AD carry, but its buildup is awful.

Cutting her burst in half? I ALWAYS check for items while I'm setting up a gank. If they have a Bainshee's, I'd just open with chains and keep the majority of my burst intact.

The whole point is moot though, because if the game goes on long enough for people to start buying Veil, then I've failed as LeBlanc and we're probably going to lose anyway.

[Ero Elohim]

Cutting her burst in half? I ALWAYS check for items while I'm setting up a gank. If they have a Bainshee's, I'd just open with chains and keep the majority of my burst intact.

The whole point is moot though, because if the game goes on long enough for people to start buying Veil, then I've failed as LeBlanc and we're probably going to lose anyway.

The point to buying a Banshee's or another form of magic resist is that they're actually pretty cheap to get in the early game. A catalyst is one of the best early game items out there, and while it won't help in early teamfights, most carries should be farming the hell out of their lane anyway. If there's the threat of a fed Leblanc on the other team, getting an early BV or Hexdrinker is one of the best decisions you can make. I'd likely go Hexdrinker if I was the AD carry, since it'll fit the role more, but BV can be useful if the support in that lane is a threat, too (Blitzcrank).

If it's forcing you to throw chains first, it's already doing a decent job. Avoid the chains - which seriously shouldn't be hard, they're one of the slowest projectiles in the game - and your initial Q is going to miss, meaning your followup Mimic won't proc the debuff. While Mimic>Distortion will still do a lot of damage, it won't one-shot anyone unless you're up 10 kills and are carrying around a 20 stack Mejai's.

As far as what Zoobi's saying, BV is insurance. Yes, it's best to just not get hit by the enemy's spells, but you can't avoid every Flash-Tibbers. If you position yourself out of range of those combos, you'll be sitting a screen away from your team. BV has a pretty powerful effect psychologically. It automatically makes you less of a target for larger spells, since nobody wants to waste a powerful spell on a shield. This usually means the enemy team will attempt to poke the shield off before making any moves, which puts them on the defensive except for small 45s windows if they manage to hit you.

But, like almost every item decision in a MOBA, you have to build based on what the enemy team is capable of. You don't build MR against a team of all AD carries, you don't build a QSS against a team without long disables, and you don't build a BV against a team that can easily poke the spellshield off.

[VKhaun]

The whole point is moot though, because if the game goes on long enough for people to start buying Veil, then I've failed as LeBlanc and we're probably going to lose anyway.

^

Some champs are just not meant for late game with lots of items.
I used to main pirate and felt the same way. OP lane/farm kit, 'meh' MDPS kit.

[VKhaun]

The point to buying a Banshee's or another form of magic resist is that they're actually pretty cheap to get in the early game.

2,715g for 50mr?
Cheap early game?
No...


A Negation cloak is 48 by itself for 740... You're dropping 1K gold on combinations, until which you have to hold two items anyway.

The only thing you get in return while building it is the heal when you level, and you can get more HP/MP when you want it with pots for less gold than the combine cost of the catalyst. The only thing you get in return when you finally complete it, is one negated harass attack before they come burst you to death because they spent a similar amount of gold efficiently and their stats crush yours.

No. BV is an overpriced mid/late game counter-pick that you turn one of your negation cloaks into, not an early game item.

[Valec]

2,715g for 50mr?
Cheap early game?
No...

It's not 2,715g for 50 MR.

It's 2,715 for 50MR, 350 HP, 350 hp, and spellshield.

All in all, not bad.

[Zoobi]

It is extremely overpriced for what it does, like I've been saying for the last three posts. If you're a toplane bruiser, a hexdrinker into maw is a better option for mr. If you're mid lane, you're going to go for chalice into athene's or abyssal scepter over banshee's veil any day because you waste precious stats on shit you don't need. If you're support, well you're never going to have enough gold for anything beyond oracles+gold/10+wards+support items(shurelya's, zeke's, aegis etc.). The only justification you can EVER make for getting banshee's veil is on a tank jungler, and even they have much better options than banshee's veil considering it's cost and what it does.

Such a pointless argument that you guys are making over an incredibly awful item.

[VKhaun]

Oooo... I might just get BV on Skarner...

[Ero Elohim]

It is extremely overpriced for what it does, like I've been saying for the last three posts. If you're a toplane bruiser, a hexdrinker into maw is a better option for mr. If you're mid lane, you're going to go for chalice into athene's or abyssal scepter over banshee's veil any day because you waste precious stats on shit you don't need. If you're support, well you're never going to have enough gold for anything beyond oracles+gold/10+wards+support items(shurelya's, zeke's, aegis etc.). The only justification you can EVER make for getting banshee's veil is on a tank jungler, and even they have much better options than banshee's veil considering it's cost and what it does.

Such a pointless argument that you guys are making over an incredibly awful item.

That Athene's will sure save you when Blitzcrank drags you into the enemy team, or Gragas kegs you away from them, or Annie Flash-Tibbers onto you for the stun, or Amumu Toss-Ults into you...

Seriously, it has a defined purpose. Just because it's a niche item doesn't mean it's an awful item. You get it in a few situations: Their team has some serious initiation, a fed combo caster, or you're playing a champion who compounds well with a spellshield of their own and want to be damn near magic immune (Nocture, Sivir).

[Boxy Brown]

The point to buying a Banshee's or another form of magic resist is that they're actually pretty cheap to get in the early game. A catalyst is one of the best early game items out there, and while it won't help in early teamfights, most carries should be farming the hell out of their lane anyway. If there's the threat of a fed Leblanc on the other team, getting an early BV or Hexdrinker is one of the best decisions you can make. I'd likely go Hexdrinker if I was the AD carry, since it'll fit the role more, but BV can be useful if the support in that lane is a threat, too (Blitzcrank).

If it's forcing you to throw chains first, it's already doing a decent job. Avoid the chains - which seriously shouldn't be hard, they're one of the slowest projectiles in the game - and your initial Q is going to miss, meaning your followup Mimic won't proc the debuff. While Mimic>Distortion will still do a lot of damage, it won't one-shot anyone unless you're up 10 kills and are carrying around a 20 stack Mejai's.

As far as what Zoobi's saying, BV is insurance. Yes, it's best to just not get hit by the enemy's spells, but you can't avoid every Flash-Tibbers. If you position yourself out of range of those combos, you'll be sitting a screen away from your team. BV has a pretty powerful effect psychologically. It automatically makes you less of a target for larger spells, since nobody wants to waste a powerful spell on a shield. This usually means the enemy team will attempt to poke the shield off before making any moves, which puts them on the defensive except for small 45s windows if they manage to hit you.

But, like almost every item decision in a MOBA, you have to build based on what the enemy team is capable of. You don't build MR against a team of all AD carries, you don't build a QSS against a team without long disables, and you don't build a BV against a team that can easily poke the spellshield off.

Maybe I haven't been playing as long or at as high of a level, but I've NEVER seen anyone get a bainshee's as their first or even second big item. Even if they do, the way I see it, if I'm forcing their carry to build up a veil before they get their infinity edge or whatever, then we're probably going to win.

[Ero Elohim]

Maybe I haven't been playing as long or at as high of a level, but I've NEVER seen anyone get a bainshee's as their first or even second big item. Even if they do, the way I see it, if I'm forcing their carry to build up a veil before they get their infinity edge or whatever, then we're probably going to win.

Several of the characters it worked for don't really see much play anymore. It was pretty common to see a Ryze with a BV in the first 20-25 minutes, for example.

[VKhaun]

Maybe I haven't been playing as long or at as high of a level, but I've NEVER seen anyone get a bainshee's as their first or even second big item. Even if they do, the way I see it, if I'm forcing their carry to build up a veil before they get their infinity edge or whatever, then we're probably going to win.

^

The item does not provide defense equal to the defense/offense an enemy can gain with the same gold. If you are backed into buying one in the early game, you already lost. You handed over gold advantage to a champ or team, who's damage output is already dictating your items.

No amount of assumption of what the opponent has or does changes that. All your arguments are just repeating an assumption that BV blocks something worthwhile rather than getting harassed off, and that one party in your story is better than the other. one is not dependent upon the other. You can be better AND not have a bad item build like rushing stats-inefficient late game counter pick item.

[Zoobi]

That Athene's will sure save you when Blitzcrank drags you into the enemy team, or Gragas kegs you away from them, or Annie Flash-Tibbers onto you for the stun, or Amumu Toss-Ults into you...

Seriously, it has a defined purpose. Just because it's a niche item doesn't mean it's an awful item. You get it in a few situations: Their team has some serious initiation, a fed combo caster, or you're playing a champion who compounds well with a spellshield of their own and want to be damn near magic immune (Nocture, Sivir).

A good Gragas would pop the spellshield with his 5 second cooldown q before ever using anything else. If blitzcrank grabs you and you have BV, oh shit he only has to wait 12 seconds for his next grab whereas you have to wait 45 for your spellshield to come back up.

You don't plan for the worst possible outcome, you plan for the best possible outcome when it comes to making item builds. I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that BV is not only extremely situational, but even in the situations its helpful it's not all that great. Regardless you're never going to accept that you're wrong on this matter so I'm done arguing with you.

[Zoobi]

Several of the characters it worked for don't really see much play anymore. It was pretty common to see a Ryze with a BV in the first 20-25 minutes, for example.

Ryze is still picked VERY often and he still builds BV often. The difference being is that he scales off of mana so it makes BV more of an attractive pickup on him. This is the one and only example of an item being a good buy for a champion that you can ever pose.

[Ero Elohim]

If blitzcrank grabs you and you have BV, oh shit he only has to wait 12 seconds for his next grab whereas you have to wait 45 for your spellshield to come back up... Regardless you're never going to accept that you're wrong on this matter so I'm done arguing with you.

And you keep arguing from this position of the game being a 1770's war where both teams line up and shoot at each other, so the 45s cooldown on Veil means it's worthless. I'd hate to be on your team if that's how you play.

Ryze is still picked VERY often and he still builds BV often. The difference being is that he scales off of mana so it makes BV more of an attractive pickup on him.

I haven't seen a Ryze in any of my games in the past month. I never see him pop up on the featured games tracker. Apparently, we play in different circles or something.

This is the one and only example of an item being a good buy for a champion that you can ever pose.

Singed.

[VKhaun]

Singed.

Not for a FIRST item IMO...

[Ero Elohim]

Not for a FIRST item IMO...

I'd still rarely build BV first, but there have been certain situations where it's a good move. A fed combo caster or a runaway ganker can be shut down with it. If you're in that situation, funneling your money into more offense will lose you the game. A dead AD carry does no damage.

[Zoobi]

And you keep arguing from this position of the game being a 1770's war where both teams line up and shoot at each other, so the 45s cooldown on Veil means it's worthless. I'd hate to be on your team if that's how you play.

I guess you play in noob level pub stomps where there is never an actual pushing or teamfights around towers after getting baron or anything.

I haven't seen a Ryze in any of my games in the past month. I never see him pop up on the featured games tracker. Apparently, we play in different circles or something.

Ryze is considered one of the best ap mids in the entire game by the vast majority of the tournament scene, and I see him very very often in ranked because he is fantastic. His only flaw is the first 6 or so levels, after that he is a fucking monster.

Singed.

Better off getting Force of Nature in every situation.

Yep.

[Ero Elohim]

If you define "pushing" or "teamfights" as "stand there and take hits," I really need to spectate one of your games.

I never said anything about Ryze besides that I haven't seen him picked very often lately. I don't know why you decided to go on a mini-rant about his potential. I just tend to see more Ahri, Cassiopeia, or Morgana.

[Zoobi]

If you define "pushing" or "teamfights" as "stand there and take hits," I really need to spectate one of your games.

I never said anything about Ryze besides that I haven't seen him picked very often lately. I don't know why you decided to go on a mini-rant about his potential. I just tend to see more Ahri, Cassiopeia, or Morgana.

/Facepalm now you're just trying to be stupid or something. You're so obviously set in your own mind that BV is some super fantastic item even though NO ONE USES IT that its pointless to even argue with you.

[Ero Elohim]

I'm actually not set that BV is super fantastic. Just that it's not worthless, awful, and not worth building in any circumstance. I called it a niche item, because that's what it is.

[Boxy Brown]

BV is like nullstone in HoN. If you're against Pyro or SR then it's great, but as soon as there's an armadon, VJ, witch slayer, or any other support who knows what they're doing, it becomes utterly useless.