New TV show for VK

[Zavon]

http://www.law.umich.edu/centersandp...2008/miles.pdf

http://www.rit.edu/cla/cpsi/WorkingP...11/2011-03.pdf

[Mute]

Pawn shops can be ok for the reasons Aeinna listed, but they're kinda like loan sharks in my opinion because they're essentially making a living off of peoples desperation. The truth is there is more money to be made in a "legitimate" business dealing in antiques and the other kind of stuff they buy/sell at those pawn shops but getting shit dirt cheap off of peoples desperation and then reselling it (often times misrepresenting the item in the process) is easier. Pawn Shops are also pretty well known for buying and selling illegal and stolen goods. A high profile shop that has it's own show like Pawn Stars probably won't go that route but pawn shops have long been known to sell shady shit. (like name brand guns that have had cheap ass parts put into them, etc).

So, Pawn Shops are bad because people have the ability to own one and do illegal things in the same place? What kind of pawn shops have you been in?

[Sillywilly]

So, Pawn Shops are bad because people have the ability to own one and do illegal things in the same place? What kind of pawn shops have you been in?

I'm not entirely sure I understand your first question but no, technically. You can do "illegal" things at your bowling alley, skating rink, etc. But pawn shops have always been convienent for selling things "in the back", under the table, etc. Often times they are used as fronts because it's so easy to manipulate the books. It's easy cheesy to say some customer walked in and sold you a pair of civil war brass knuckles for 20 bucks and then you sold them for 200 and that's where your profit came from. Brass knuckles of any kind never had to pass through your store. New laws have been passed in recent decades to try and cut down on this kind of crap, plus to cut down on the ease of moving stolen merchandise through pawn shops. Plus you get all those shady/desperate types coming in which means you're hitting your target customer base if you are into dealing out the back.

As for your 2nd question, dude, I'm from the south eastern United States. I knew a 19 year old sophomore high school "neeg-rah" that owned his own video rental/pawn shop down in ghetto town. More stolen shit came through that pawn shop than you can imagine. People would steal it from us (for example breaking into cars during an away football game and taking their audio equipment) and he would resell it. Eventually he got busted for it and was doing some time last I heard.

Growing up I knew of several pawn shop owners who either did get busted or were under investigation several times for receiving stolen property, selling firearms without abiding to the laws, etc.

Just FYI here is an article about pawn shops affecting property crimes.
http://www.fbfl.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/369


Today I think most states are requiring pawn shops to get photo identification from every customer for every transaction and like in Florida as the article above states the police have access to a database of these transactions. Note that doesn't keep them from doing things under the table, there's no police officer there to actually make them put every transaction on the book, but this law arose because of all the stolen property that was passing through pawn shops.

Pawn shops owners are those "yeah this is a bad idea made in a time of desperation but that's not my problem" or "yeah he's gonna shoot his wife with it but his money spends the same as everyone elses" type mentalities.

I mean what are the chances of a thief who breaks into your house and steals your rolex watch and your television selling it to a neighbor or friend of his? How does he reach his "customer base"? He doesn't. He unloads his stolen property at a pawn shop that has a broad customer base and can actually move the merchandise.

[VKhaun]

I'm not entirely sure I understand your first question but no, technically. You can do "illegal" things at your bowling alley, skating rink, etc. But pawn shops have always been convienent for selling things "in the back", under the table, etc. Often times they are used as fronts because it's so easy to manipulate the books. It's easy cheesy to say some customer walked in and sold you a pair of civil war brass knuckles for 20 bucks and then you sold them for 200 and that's where your profit came from. Brass knuckles of any kind never had to pass through your store. Plus you get all those shady/desperate types coming in which means you're hitting your target customer base if you are into dealing out the back.

Nothing stops anyone from doing that at bowling alleys or skating rinks. Pawn brokers serve as an outlet for STOLEN goods because of the non-specific nature of the business, but that's the end of it. A skating rink could serve as an outlet for DRUGS because of how many people come and go at night. Any business could be used for bad things by a bad person.

It's not a painters fault he uses paint or skating rink owner's fault people come on friday nights, any more than it's a pawn broker's fault his business deals in everything. There's no point to make. There's no where to go with it. At very best it's the start of an argument that pawn shops should have to do more paperwork when they accept things, not an argument that pawn shops are 'bad'.

Your 'beef' is with people. People who open pawn shops to fence stolen goods. People who are so well off they don't know what value is and sell important things for trivial cash. People who get off on ripping other people off. People. Not a trade or type of business.

[Sillywilly]

Nothing stops anyone from doing that at bowling alleys or skating rinks. Pawn brokers serve as an outlet for STOLEN goods because of the non-specific nature of the business, but that's the end of it. A skating rink could serve as an outlet for DRUGS because of how many people come and go at night. Any business could be used for bad things by a bad person.

It's not a painters fault he uses paint or skating rink owner's fault people come on friday nights, any more than it's a pawn broker's fault his business deals in everything. There's no point to make. There's no where to go with it. At very best it's the start of an argument that pawn shops should have to do more paperwork when they accept things, not an argument that pawn shops are 'bad'.

Your 'beef' is with people. People who open pawn shops to fence stolen goods. People who are so well off they don't know what value is and sell important things for trivial cash. People who get off on ripping other people off. People. Not a trade or type of business.

Sorta but not. There are hundreds if not thousands of businesses out there that make a living by buying and reselling things just the way pawn shops do. However these places (like antiquities dealers, etc) have processes and procedures to cut down on selling stolen goods like paperwork, identification, certification, etc.

Pawn shops arose to fill a niche market where someone just brings anything to them and they sell buy it for a low low price no questions asked. People only sell things for a stupid low price because they either didn't pay shit for it (STOLEN!) or they are desperate for cash.

This is where pawn shops make their money. There is no "good vs bad" pawn shops. The INDUSTRY itself arose to fill that void of dishonest transactions.

[VKhaun]

At very best it's the start of an argument that pawn shops should have to do more paperwork when they accept things, not an argument that pawn shops are 'bad'.

Sorta but not. There are hundreds if not thousands of businesses out there that make a living by buying and reselling things just the way pawn shops do. However these places (like antiquities dealers, etc) have processes and procedures to cut down on selling stolen goods like paperwork, identification, certification, etc.

Repeating the same shallow rhetoric does not support your argument, it just convinces me you haven't thought through what you're talking about.

They are an especially good business to use to move stolen goods. That's a fact. But that fact doesn't lead back to any of the other bullshit generalizations that you're pushing. It's a statement against thieves and fences, not against pawn shops. You could make the same kind of statement about any business using whatever a criminal would see it as good for.

Just because people in the ghetto sell drugs outside night hotspots and fence goods through pawn shops and chop cars through garages does not mean man invented garages and skating rinks to sell drugs and steal cars. A small scale loan is a service people need ESPECIALLY in low income areas and the lower the income of the area, the harder the times, the more difficult it becomes to sell merchandise when someone doesn't come buy it back, meaning you need to turn a large profit not just to keep your books in the black as a buy/sell operation, but to keep cash on hand to continue those small loans.

There is no "good vs bad" pawn shops. The INDUSTRY itself arose to fill that void of dishonest transactions.

Pawn shops are older than the issues you attribute their creation to but if you're comfy saying the earth is younger than dinosaur bones I guess that's not such a stretch for you.

[Sillywilly]

repeating the same shallow rhetoric does not support your argument, it just convinces me you haven't thought through what you're talking about.

They are an especially good business to use to move stolen goods. That's a fact. But that fact doesn't lead back to any of the other bullshit generalizations that you're pushing. It's a statement against thieves and fences, not against pawn shops. You could make the same kind of statement about any business using whatever a criminal would see it as good for.

Just because people in the ghetto sell drugs outside night hotspots and fence goods through pawn shops and chop cars through garages does not mean man invented garages and skating rinks to sell drugs and steal cars. A small scale loan is a service people need especially in low income areas and the lower the income of the area, the harder the times, the more difficult it becomes to sell merchandise when someone doesn't come buy it back, meaning you need to turn a large profit not just to keep your books in the black as a buy/sell operation, but to keep cash on hand to continue those small loans.

You see, you haven't done anything but insult my "rhetoric" by repeating your own "rhetoric". I don't think you get how this works kiddo.

Let me guess, you're a fan of one of the pawn shop shows, and being a fat loner with aspergers you're overly attached to the characters and can't stand to entertain the fact that they might not have be 100% noble?

pawn shops are older than the issues you attribute their creation to but if you're comfy saying the earth is younger than dinosaur bones i guess that's not such a stretch for you.

Ahhh lol somebody woke up on the wrong side of aspergers this morning and is in the mood to yell at some Christians. I wondered how long it would take you to get around to that.

Pawn shops are older than theft? OK SCIENCE GUY LULZ.

[VKhaun]

If I didn't know you I'd probably be baited into explaining the details of multiple people answering you, and you repeating the unfounded statement that's been answered and you haven't argued for, but I know it'll just go to ten pages of you repeating it like it should make sense.


I didn't say it was older than theft, I said it was older than what I quoted. And lol @ dinosaur bones > earth = Christian. But once again, Sillywilly using willful ignorance to create an argument out of thin air. Hell I could have written that post for you, right down to how you put your problem of judging the world based on entertainment and sensationalism that you tried to put on me. I don't need to though. Everyone can see the only references you've posted are from your T.V. education.

You've been coming to this forum pulling the same shit for too long.

Predictable doesn't do it justice. You're downright formulaic.

[Sillywilly]

If I didn't know you I'd probably be baited into explaining the details of multiple people answering you, and you repeating the unfounded statement that's been answered and you haven't argued for, but I know it'll just go to ten pages of you repeating it like it should make sense.


I didn't say it was older than theft, I said it was older than what I quoted. And lol @ dinosaur bones > earth = Christian. But once again, Sillywilly using willful ignorance to create an argument out of thin air. Hell I could have written that post for you, right down to how you put your problem of judging the world based on entertainment and sensationalism that you tried to put on me. I don't need to though. Everyone can see the only references you've posted are from your T.V. education.

You've been coming to this forum pulling the same shit for too long.

Predictable doesn't do it justice. You're downright formulaic.

Yet again you have nothing but a butt hurt rant and not a single shred of anything to back up your ridiculous basement dweller arguments lol. Typical VKhaun. You don't know anything about pawn shops because you're mom doesn't have one in her house. I've absolutely destroyed your useless ass so many times in the past you've resorted to waking in a hospital bed telling everyone "no I won the fight" lol.

Most pawnbrokers in business in Rochester today opened within the last ten years. Due to
questions of criminal activity, pawn shops now have a special status in which they are required
to report all the items that are purchased by them. Thus, in order to conduct business, these
pawnbrokers are required to obtain and maintain a yearly license from the Chief of Police as well
as report their daily transactions to him. This reporting is done by hand and faxed to a person in
the department who consolidates and organizes data electronically. However, the Rochester
Police Department is moving towards electronic reporting


Two separate analyses of the criminal history of the 20 most active pawners were conducted. Searching individual cases indicated that 19 of the 20 most active pawners had been arrested within Monroe County – as indicated by the MoRIS numbers. Twelve of the 20 had theft-related charges.

From Zavons link. And you'll see even more of the same story in mine.

But don't worry VKhaun, I'm not worried about you letting the cold hard facts get in the way of you discovering the truth lol.

Fat asses like you are why I hate people with aspergers. You're fucking useless. No physical advantages, no mental competency. You're like that slowest antelope that should have been taken out by natural selection a long time ago but you stink so god damn bad none of the lions dare to eat you.

[Pyrrhus]

Its still the people doing the crimes. Not the business model.

4 pages?

[Draconian]

Limitless pride. The hallmark aspect of every good Christian, amirite?

[Norska]

Your daily fact: Columbus wouldn't have pissed off indians if pawn shops were illegal.

Ergo, North America wouldn't have been "discovered" when it was and the colonies would not have come into existence during the same time period.

Therefore, America would not exist to become SilliamWilliams great christian nation without.... Pawn Shops!

Go kiss your local ghetto hometown pawnbroker silly, he's continuing a tradition that led to the creation of your great christian state!

[Aeinna]

You can't blame pawn stores for what people do. They have no way of knowing if what is given to them is legal or not. Same as auctions or any other business that is going to buy your stuff. I dunno what antique stores you've been to, but I have never known of one that will buy stuff from people walking in. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure they do their own shopping.

And your article Silly is from 2000 and says Property Crime and Pawnshops:
Coincidence or Correlation? By James T. Hurley, Assistant Chief, Fort Lauderdale Police Department.

[Dumah]

You can blame them for getting into the industry though. A lot of shady people operate through them, and when deciding the kind of business they're going to run one day, they'd be fooling themselves if they believed that their shop would always operate legitimately.

[Mute]

You can blame them for getting into the industry though. A lot of shady people operate through them, and when deciding the kind of business they're going to run one day, they'd be fooling themselves if they believed that their shop would always operate legitimately.

That's quite a slippery slope man. I still have yet to see anyone say anything that points to the idea that pawn shops will eventually deal in illegal business other than pure prejudice. I feel like with a similar line of thought, one could also say that medical marijuana dispensaries will never be a legitimate business. Many farms, farm supply shops, and dispensaries will use those businesses as a front for illegal means because its well known that the mexican drug lords own a handful of those businesses.

And while that statement is completely true, it is also true that there are a handful of farms, farm supply shops, and dispensaries that went into the business with completely good intentions. Despite the fact that the whole industry is built upon an illegal way of life.

[Sillywilly]

You can't blame pawn stores for what people do. They have no way of knowing if what is given to them is legal or not. Same as auctions or any other business that is going to buy your stuff. I dunno what antique stores you've been to, but I have never known of one that will buy stuff from people walking in. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure they do their own shopping.

And your article Silly is from 2000 and says Property Crime and Pawnshops:
Coincidence or Correlation? By James T. Hurley, Assistant Chief, Fort Lauderdale Police Department.

I agree in sentiment but the reality is that people who go into the pawn store business know what they're getting into, just like Dumah mentioned.

I dunno what antique stores you've been to, but I have never known of one that will buy stuff from people walking in.

Yeah but that was pretty much my point. Although antique dealers will deal with people that come in you have to have all kinds of paperwork/etc before they will consider a buy. Some of them will only buy it if you can provide some kind of legal documentation stating you're the owner, or have some kind of paper trail, etc.

People have been stealing shit for years, unloading that shit for a profit without getting busted is the hard part. Pawn shops arose to fill that gap between documented legal sales and a being a dealer yourself. No questions asked, we'll buy your shit super cheap.

I still have yet to see anyone say anything that points to the idea that pawn shops will eventually deal in illegal business other than pure prejudice.

Maybe read back over the thread?

What prejudice? Someone just up and decided to give pawn shops a bad rep? Where the hell do you think the "prejudice" came from in the first place lol?

Sometimes you people really make me do that like puppy head turned sideways confusion thingy with how, I don't even know what the world for it is. Naive doesn't quite cover it.

The laws for how pawn shops do business have gotten so strict lately BECAUSE of the shady dealings pawn shops have become associated with.

[Andile™]

People who watch shows about pawn shops, though, now that's pretty odd.

This.67890

[Aeinna]

I agree in sentiment but the reality is that people who go into the pawn store business know what they're getting into, just like Dumah mentioned.

I dunno what antique stores you've been to, but I have never known of one that will buy stuff from people walking in.

Yeah but that was pretty much my point. Although antique dealers will deal with people that come in you have to have all kinds of paperwork/etc before they will consider a buy. Some of them will only buy it if you can provide some kind of legal documentation stating you're the owner, or have some kind of paper trail, etc.

People have been stealing shit for years, unloading that shit for a profit without getting busted is the hard part. Pawn shops arose to fill that gap between documented legal sales and a being a dealer yourself. No questions asked, we'll buy your shit super cheap..

Part of that may very well be true. No matter the business, some of them are going to be shady but not all. If I was to speculate i'd say you could judge which ones were just by location, among other factors. It isn't like they are few and far between, hell I think we have 4 within 10 miles of us. They also offer title loans, which is not shady, as you do have to have proof you own the car before they hand over the money

Maybe I am cold and uncaring but I don't see the problem. People are gonna steal. Whether they sell it to a pawn store or in some other fashion, doesn't really matter. These stores offer an option to people who want to do legitimate business for straight up cash for whatever reason they need. Whether it be to line their pockets, pay off a debt or something else crappy that happened. Sometimes a job isn't a enough and there are only a few ways to come up with the money quick. I'd take a pawn shop over a pay day or title loan any day.

[VKhaun]

Yet again you have nothing but ...

Except none of that shit you posted proves a point for you. Everyone already conceded paperwork and you think talking about it makes you right somehow?

You have created this little wheel of three points.
You say they need paperwork,
you say they're good for fencing stolen property, and
you say THEY'RE BAD M'KAY.

We reply with,
DUH they need more paper work and everyone knows it including the police
DUH lots of businesses are good for different nefarious purposes, and
YOU'RE RETARDED - The business of Pawn Shops is not inherently bad.

You're not actually replying to anything we've said, you're just going back around your little circle trying to look right on the internet by repeating the parts we agree with and pretending it makes you right overall.

And if you check the white text in the previous version of the post you replied to, you'll find I called your whole post by the way. Formulaic stupidity.

[Andile™]

4 pages?

And this.0

[VKhaun]

Sons of Anarchy is win. I'm already about to start on Season 3... was supposed to be playing GW2 this weekend LOL

Don't want to drop spoilers for those who might watch it, but Season 2 was awesome.

[Ziel]

One question about Sons of Anarchy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/19756194

This dude just died. Without spoiling anything, is that a huge issue for the show?

[VKhaun]

One question about Sons of Anarchy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/19756194

This dude just died. Without spoiling anything, is that a huge issue for the show?

No it is not.

[Sillywilly]

Except none of that shit you posted proves a point for you. Everyone already conceded paperwork and you think talking about it makes you right somehow?

You have created this little wheel of three points.
You say they need paperwork,
you say they're good for fencing stolen property, and
you say THEY'RE BAD M'KAY.

We reply with,
DUH they need more paper work and everyone knows it including the police
DUH lots of businesses are good for different nefarious purposes, and
YOU'RE RETARDED - The business of Pawn Shops is not inherently bad.

You're not actually replying to anything we've said, you're just going back around your little circle trying to look right on the internet by repeating the parts we agree with and pretending it makes you right overall.

And if you check the white text in the previous version of the post you replied to, you'll find I called your whole post by the way. Formulaic stupidity.

Actually I've shown exactly where their market is. Their entire business scheme is set up around selling shady goods or cashing in on peoples desperation.

I've posted research that said crime rates were higher in the areas with the most pawn shops. So either pawn shops promote crime because of how they do business or they move into areas with high crime because it's good for their business lol. Sorry kid but the facts don't lie.

2ndly I've posted research that shows that 19 out of 20 customers had criminal records and 12 of those 19 were theft convictions lol. Sorry kid but the facts don't lie.

3rdly I've shown that laws have had to be passed and enforced in order to prevent these pawn shops from dealing in stolen goods. If they weren't dealing in stolen goods in some kind of epic proportions then the gov wouldn't have bothered with these laws and the expenses of enforcing them. Sorry kid but the facts don't lie.

Just because you've warmed up to some random pawn broker you'll never meet because you're watching his retarded show doesn't mean the industry hasn't been known for corruption/shady business practices since it's inception. You wanna get angry get angry at your god damn aspergers for making you have such stupid impulses and behavioral patterns.

No not every pawn broker is crooked, just enough that the industry is known for it. (assuming there are no Christian Republican ninjas sneaking around leading a propaganda assault on the pawn shop industry for some odd reason).

YOU ARE SHIT AT THIS.

[Marou]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make Silly, or how it's relevant to anything. As lenders of last resort you could do much worse than a pawn shop. Like a payday loan, or a loan shark.

If you know the value of what you're selling or pawning you can also get a pretty fair shake at a pawnbroker, and everything is negotiable, including interest. Banks are way shadier than pawn brokers. They take money created out of thin air on 0.25% interest rate loans that are infinitely rolled over from the federal reserve, inflate that money by 10-100X, and buy up everything (businesses, real estate, commodities) to sell to everyone else. If they get into some kind of trouble from being fucktarded the reserve (which they control the board of) prints infinite more money to the inflationary detriment of everyone else to save them. What is it we're giving them now? $40,000,000,000 (extra) dollars a month forever? At least a pawnbroker can only fuck over stupid people, banks fuck over everyone.