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  1. #1
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    Default Zimmerman acquitted!

    Zimmerman has been acquitted of all charges. Anyone else watch the trial? The evidence if you could call it that was so freaking slim it was a joke to even have a trial.

    What did you think?

    Do you think there will be riots?
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    One of defense attorneys had it right when a reporter asked him what would have happened if the races of Martin and Zimmerman had been reversed. He said there would never have been a trial in the first place.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Esfires View Post
    One of defense attorneys had it right when a reporter asked him what would have happened if the races of Martin and Zimmerman had been reversed. He said there would never have been a trial in the first place.


    This dude gets arrested and you think there wouldn't have been a trial? Or do you mean they wouldn't have bothered with a trial and just sent him straight to jail?

    Maybe if he was white.
    It's going to be a fine day tomorrow. We will have salad...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    I still don't understand what happened.

    The only provable thing we can find in the case after Zimmerman's recorded call, is that he's gotten beat up and the teen is shot in the heart. One of those things kind of has to come before the other... You can't prove who instigated a fight and the prosecution knew that to begin with. The entire case against him had to be that he forced the confrontation and therefore it's his fault even if Martin instigated the violence later, but that's where the whole thing loses me. The neighborhood watch captain of a gated community where there had been break ins went trying to find out who a person he didn't recognize was, that was walking around by himself at sundown, high, looking at houses, and who took off running when he saw Zimmerman was on the phone watching him. How in the world is that unreasonable?

    I feel like they just pressed charges to make people happy short term, knowing it would just amp them up and make them feel validated until the guy was acquitted. If there are riots, the city deserves the cost. I only feel bad for the cops in the middle of it all.

    I also agree with the defense that the media was against him. I heard/read it that the police 'told him not to' get out of his car many many times, but if you listen to the call they said they didn't need him to, they didn't order him not to. There was no argument or defiance of police directions. And of course the pictures of widdle baby Tray vs the mug shots of Zimmerman. People talking about his fucking skittles and tea.
    Last edited by VKhaun; 07-14-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    I don't fucking care.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziel View Post

    This dude gets arrested and you think there wouldn't have been a trial? Or do you mean they wouldn't have bothered with a trial and just sent him straight to jail?

    Maybe if he was white.

    He meant that if Zimmerman had been black and Martin Hispanic, charges would have never been brought. No charges were going to be filed at all, from what I understand, until outside forces got involved. The police investigated and basically said, "This is a good shooting." Zimmerman was charged because of political pressure, because certain elements were trying to create a civil rights event.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    I just watched this video.

    It is epic.

    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I just watched this video.

    It is epic.
    LMAO that man representin' and keepin' it real.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boxy Brown View Post
    I don't fucking care.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Zimmerman followed Martin after being told by police not to. He forced a confrontation, while armed with a gun, which led to Martin's death. The only part where I see grounds for reasonable doubt is whether or not Zimmerman "evinced a depraved mind regardless of human life" (or in other words, he demonstrated no remorse for having killed the kid, like someone with antisocial personality disorder would). The other portion of the definition for Second Degree Murder in Florida (§ 782.04.2): "the unlawful killing of another human being, when perpetrated by an act imminently dangerous to another..." fits the facts of the case perfectly. If you don't think that stalking someone at night while armed with a gun after being told by police not to do that very fucking thing isn't promoting an imminent danger, then I guess we'll just have to agree that you're a moron.

    On the manslaughter charge (§ 782.07), he is absolutely 100% guilty. On Murder 2, I didn't watch the trial, I've only read the facts of the case, so I didn't see everything the jury saw.

    The Florida "stand your ground" law (and Texas') is horribly written. It's overly broad and vague. They're written to allow someone to pick a fight, then kill the guy defending himself and walk away scott free. That has never, ever been something you've been allowed to do in America. Not in the "Wild West." Not in the Old South (unless, of course, the corpse was black). Not in New York City. Nowhere ever have you been allowed to just straight-up murder a dude. Especially a dude you picked a fight with. This acquittal is a victory for vigilantism, lawlessness, and irresponsible gun ownership. Just because you're a member of a neighborhood watch, or citizen's militia, or whatever, that doesn't give you the right to act under color of authority.

    I've heard it said that Martin shouldn't have jumped Zimmerman.

    So let me get this straight... a black kid being followed at night by some strange dude can't defend himself? Should he have just soft shoed his'a ways'a up'ta Miss'a Zimmerman an'a ask'd how he could be a' service?

    The only reason Zimmerman called the cops and followed Martin in the first place is because Martin was a black kid in a hoodie; and Zimmerman was just, like, positive, man, that Martin was one of the kids causing trouble in the neighborhood. This is the kind of quiet, internalized racism that permeates our society. It isn't klan rallies, burning crosses, and segregated everything. It isn't banning minarets or the hijab (although some talking heads are obviously calling for just that).

    It's the assumption that a black kid in a hoodie out at night must be up to something. It's the iconic image of the "welfare queen." It's the lazy mojado takin' all'r jobs. It's the infamous "bag men" photo the Post put out. It's telling your friend to "stop being Jewish" when you split the bar tab. It's assuming an Asian is good at math.

    A lot of it is harmless, yes.

    Except for when a dude who's not a cop stalks a kid at night then shoots him through the heart after that kid tries to defend himself.
    Last edited by Bragi; 07-15-2013 at 11:51 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that Zimmerman threatened Martin. He didn't, and your position falls apart because of it.

    The cops never told Zimmerman to do anything. The 911 operator, (a phone monkey, not a cop) told him that it was not necessary that he follow Martin. Zimmerman then said "okay." Zimmerman left Martin peaceably. He was on his way back to his vehicle when Martin circled back around, waited in the bushes for Zimmerman to pass, attacked him, broke his nose, took him to the ground, and began repeatedly pounding his head into the concrete while Zimmerman screamed for help. Zimmerman never once even struck Martin. Martin never ever ever "defended" himself. He was the aggressor. Being followed and questioned by a stranger does not give anyone the right, legal or moral, to physically assault that stranger. Zimmerman was in the right, Martin was in the wrong, and Martin made some very bad decisions that led to his own death. If Martin had survived that night, he would be in jail right now for assault (possibly for attempted murder). As it is, he picked a fight (yes, he picked/started the fight) with the wrong man. The only person who deserves to be punished for the events that night is Trayvon Martin himself, and he certainly has been.
    Last edited by Esfires; 07-15-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Esfires View Post
    Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that Zimmerman threatened Martin. He didn't, and your position falls apart because of it.

    The cops never told Zimmerman to do anything. The 911 operator, (a phone monkey, not a cop) told him that it was not necessary that he follow Martin. Zimmerman then said "okay." Zimmerman left Martin peaceably. He was on his way back to his vehicle when Martin circled back around, waited in the bushes for Zimmerman to pass, attacked him, broke his nose, took him to the ground, and began repeatedly pounding his head into the concrete while Zimmerman screamed for help. Zimmerman never once even struck Martin. Martin never ever ever "defended" himself. He was the aggressor. Being followed and questioned by a stranger does not give anyone the right, legal or moral, to physically assault that stranger. Zimmerman was in the right, Martin was in the wrong, and Martin made some very bad decisions that led to his own death. If Martin had survived that night, he would be in jail right now for assault (possibly for attempted murder). As it is, he picked a fight (yes, he picked/started the fight) with the wrong man. The only person who deserves to be punished for the events that night is Trayvon Martin himself, and he certainly has been.
    Yeah I was gonna say all that too but since you already did.....

    Bragi is an idiot. He's probably mad because he's never had anything but black pussy.

    And I think it's funny that pretty much all of those "Stereotypes" that Bragi posted can be supported by facts lol.

    Jumping people is not self defense moron. That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard a fat ass white "I hate my own race" dumb fuck say. The kid had a chance to just go straight home. The kid had a chance to NOT freaking punch someone and start a physical altercation. And the worst of it is that the kid knew who Zimmerman was, which he indicated in his phone conversation with that lard ass girl.

    But no you're right, little ass thug wannabes should be able to jump the first person to offend them. Anything else is racist.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post

    The Florida "stand your ground" law (and Texas') is horribly written. It's overly broad and vague. They're written to allow someone to pick a fight, then kill the guy defending himself and walk away scott free. That has never, ever been something you've been allowed to do in America. Not in the "Wild West." Not in the Old South (unless, of course, the corpse was black). Not in New York City. Nowhere ever have you been allowed to just straight-up murder a dude. Especially a dude you picked a fight with.
    I think most native Americans would disagree with you there.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Regardless of whether nor not he was told to stay put; stalking someone at night, then running after them while armed (and you're not a uniformed police or other peace officer declaring yourself as such and acting under color authority) promotes an imminent danger to the person being stalked.

    But at any rate, fuck [URL="http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html"]you[/URL Esfires.

    And in case you don't hover over the links:

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/tra...ing-fast-facts

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...-document.html
    Last edited by Bragi; 07-15-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    I didn't follow the trial closely, what evidence supports the contention that Martin circled back and ambushed Zimmerman.
    -Make America Nazi Free!

    -Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

    -"Personally, I play a warlock to set people on fire as they run in fear while I steal their souls. As an added perk, I play an undead warlock so I can eat their brains afterwards. I suppose a better question is, why do people play anything else?" (Unknown WoW forum poster)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Mars View Post
    I didn't follow the trial closely, what evidence supports the contention that Martin circled back and ambushed Zimmerman.

    All of it, pretty much. George's own accounts, of course, plus what forensics were available. Multiple witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him while Zimmerman cried for help. Plus, Martin didn't have a scratch on him except for the gunshot wound, while Zimmerman was battered pretty badly. It's not hard to ascertain who started a fight when the evidence shows that only one person actually did any fighting.

    As for Bragi's links up there, I have absolutely no idea what point he's trying to make. Everything in them supports Zimmerman's accounts, and especially the first one (the transcript of the 911 call) shows him to have been acting in a responsible and commendable manner. And no, Bragi, being followed by a resident of a neighborhood that you're walking through at night (who you don't know is armed, not that it would make a difference) does not give you the right to attack him. Martin had no right to assault Zimmerman. As soon as he did, he signed away his right to his own life.

    And not only that, but the cries of racism are motivated either by stupidity or outright duplicitousness. George Zimmerman is like the poster child for not being racist: A child of two races, works with troubled black youth in his spare time, took a black girl to his prom, it's like the guy was designed from the ground up to be some sort of tolerant, multicultural paragon.
    Last edited by Esfires; 07-15-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    I've had some pretty heated debates on Facebook on this, which I never thought I'd be doing. I see very little reason why this has become the heated race issue that it has.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumah View Post
    I've had some pretty heated debates on Facebook on this, which I never thought I'd be doing. I see very little reason why this has become the heated race issue that it has.
    For some, they've been raised to hate "the man" keeping them down, rather than take responsibility for their own lives. For others, race-baiting is how they pay the rent.

    EDIT: Bragi, you could stand to watch the video Dumah posted, especially from around 14 minutes in, but the whole thing would certainly be edifying. From what you've posted, it sounds like you just may not be familiar with the facts of the case and have some misconceptions about it.
    Last edited by Esfires; 07-15-2013 at 09:23 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    agreed. that was an excellent video Dumah
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    The fellow I've been brawling with, sadly, is one of my oldest friends I knew from first grade. I went on to get a business and aviation degree, and he did liberal studies to become a journalist in Chicago. We friended on Facebook a few years back, and I got a very peculiar feeling from his posts. Some time ago, I read a quote by John Wayne - "err wait a second:

    Quote Originally Posted by John Wayne
    I have found a certain type calls himself a liberal . . . Now I always thought I was a liberal. I came up terribly surprised one time when I found out that I was a right-wing conservative extremist, when I listened to everybody`s point of view that I ever met, and then decided how I should feel. But this so-called new liberal group, Jesus, they never listen to your point of view . .
    I found myself posting on his wall with various opposing viewpoints, and learned the truth behind this quote. Fortunately, I've had years of hardening and rough exchange from Catacombs, from which I would like to thank certain folks on here, including Sillywilly, Random Havoc, Marou, Zavon, and... sigh... Taoist, for helping me develop an element of critical thought in the face of barrage. I have seen my old friend's points crumble into mud slinging, and am afraid that he is lulling me into a false sense that the neolib stance is truly untenable.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    Regardless of whether nor not he was told to stay put; stalking someone at night, then running after them while armed (and you're not a uniformed police or other peace officer declaring yourself as such and acting under color authority) promotes an imminent danger to the person being stalked.

    But at any rate, fuck [URL="http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html"]you[/URL Esfires.

    And in case you don't hover over the links:

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/tra...ing-fast-facts

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...-document.html
    YEAH. And of course when you feel threatened and intimidated and given a 4 minute window to run home with your skittles and ice tea the best solution is to not do that at all, but circle around and hide in the dark and start a fist fight with an "armed" individual.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    When I first heard about this case I thought what had happened was that Martin was just walking around with his hoodie on and acted like a though guy by shit talking to Zimmerman who though "oh shit he is smaller and younger than me!" and shot him and I hoped he would get the chair for being such a pussy.

    Now I feel bad for the dude who is likely going to have to move to a new city and change his name and all that other shit. Kind of have to blame the media for hyping the shit out of this so the case is hurried thought the door before the prosecution can get any real evidence (if there was any) because that is not really justice either that is just the legal system, a system made to protect us mind you, caving to the media because no kids where kidnapped that week.

    The media should cover more stories in Russia and Africa, they can have all the kidnapped white girls and murdered black kids there they could ever want.
    Last edited by dr.wang; 07-16-2013 at 04:12 AM.

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Quote Originally Posted by dr.wang View Post
    When I first heard about this case I thought what had happened was that Martin was just walking around with his hoodie on and acted like a though guy by shit talking to Zimmerman who though "oh shit he is smaller and younger than me!" and shot him and I hoped he would get the chair for being such a pussy.

    Now I feel bad for the dude who is likely going to have to move to a new city and change his name and all that other shit. Kind of have to blame the media for hyping the shit out of this so the case is hurried thought the door before the prosecution can get any real evidence (if there was any) because that is not really justice either that is just the legal system, a system made to protect us mind you, caving to the media because no kids where kidnapped that week.

    oh and a bunch of black kids got murdered in Africa.
    The incident happened over a year ago. The prosecution had time to get all the evidence they were ever going to have. It just so happened that all of the evidence supported Zimmerman.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    Sums up my thoughts on the topic:



    In related news: http://rt.com/usa/smith-mundt-domestic-propaganda-121/
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Zimmerman acquitted!

    ^^^ Yup

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