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  1. #1
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    Default A Day without women and such....

    If you weren't aware, today was a "Day without women" protest. Women all over the country:

    In the same spirit of love and liberation that inspired the Women's March, we join together in making March 8th A Day Without a Woman, recognizing the enormous value that women of all backgrounds add to our socio-economic system--while receiving lower wages and experiencing greater inequities, vulnerability to discrimination, sexual harassment, and job insecurity. We recognize that trans and gender nonconforming people face heightened levels of discrimination, social oppression and political targeting. We believe in gender justice.

    Anyone, anywhere, can join by making March 8th A Day Without a Woman, in one or all of the following ways:

    Women take the day off, from paid and unpaid labor

    Avoid shopping for one day (with exceptions for small, women- and minority-owned businesses).

    Wear RED in solidarity with A Day Without A Woman

    A Day Without a Woman reaffirms our commitment to the Principles of Unity, which were collaboratively outlined for the Women’s March. We are inspired by recent courageous actions like the "Bodega strike" lead by Yemeni immigrant store owners in New York City and the Day Without Immigrants across the U.S. We applaud the efforts of #GrabYourWallet and others to bring public accountability to unethical corporate practices. The Women's March stands in solidarity with the International Women's Strike organizers, feminists of color and grassroots groups in planning global actions for equity, justice and human rights.

    When millions of us stood together in January, we saw clearly that our army of love greatly outnumbers that of fear, greed and hatred. Let's raise our voices together again, to say that women’s rights are human rights, regardless of a woman’s race, ethnicity, religion, immigration status, sexual identity, gender expression, economic status, age or disability.

    What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of these kinds of protests? Do you think they work? Are they important?
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    If people notice then you're creating division and frustration aimed specifically at the group you want to represent.

    If people don't notice then you look like an idiot...

    If there's an upside I don't know what it is.

    I'm still a reclusive loner though, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask about noticing people missing.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    I tend to agree with your line of thinking on this (loner or not). But I guess I also have to wonder, what kind of protest would you have to do to effect any actual change? How far would you have to go?
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I tend to agree with your line of thinking on this (loner or not). But I guess I also have to wonder, what kind of protest would you have to do to effect any actual change? How far would you have to go?
    The most basic aspect of a "protest" is that people know what you're protesting.

    I don't think this protest's effectiveness is a question of scope. You could have all of them disappear from work for a month, but if people don't know WTF you want then it doesn't do any good.

    One thing mentioned specifically was pay "inequality". To protest that you would call out a policy or person who is causing that... not leave work and stop getting paid...
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    The most basic aspect of a "protest" is that people know what you're protesting.

    I don't think this protest's effectiveness is a question of scope. You could have all of them disappear from work for a month, but if people don't know WTF you want then it doesn't do any good.

    One thing mentioned specifically was pay "inequality". To protest that you would call out a policy or person who is causing that... not leave work and stop getting paid...
    How can you reasonably protest against a non-existent wage gap? Basic ecnomics show that if women are getting paid 77cents to the dollar then every corporation could save 23% on salary payments by only hiring women. The real wage gap occurs because of job choice. Comparing the salary of chemical engineers to school teachers isn't exactly reasonable.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozoron View Post
    How can you reasonably protest against a non-existent wage gap? Basic ecnomics show that if women are getting paid 77cents to the dollar then every corporation could save 23% on salary payments by only hiring women. The real wage gap occurs because of job choice. Comparing the salary of chemical engineers to school teachers isn't exactly reasonable.
    ^ nailed it. For the most part there is no noticeable wage gap between women and men of equal education, equal experience in the same job.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillywilly View Post
    ^ nailed it. For the most part there is no noticeable wage gap between women and men of equal education, equal experience in the same job.
    I thought it was conclusively studied that the pay gap exists because women in America don't get, guaranteed, paid maternity leave. So all the working women who have to take mandatory time off for their birth/childcare are taking a pay-cut to be out of work for that time.

    I could totally be wrong about it being actually studied/explained away in stats, but I always thought that was part of the 'common sense' answer as to why the gap exists, if it did. The time period in which women have held higher-level engineering/science/financial market jobs is also quite small in the grand scheme of things.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrrhus View Post
    I thought it was conclusively studied that the pay gap exists because women in America don't get, guaranteed, paid maternity leave. So all the working women who have to take mandatory time off for their birth/childcare are taking a pay-cut to be out of work for that time.

    I could totally be wrong about it being actually studied/explained away in stats, but I always thought that was part of the 'common sense' answer as to why the gap exists, if it did. The time period in which women have held higher-level engineering/science/financial market jobs is also quite small in the grand scheme of things.
    AFAIK you're correct, but now bring that back to the top. That's not a protest for "pay equality" that's a protest for "more benefits than men" which would make women more expensive, as they do not create profit in return during the time they're on maternity leave, and hurt their cause.

    To me, the common sense answer here is that it would be the responsibility of the person-of-unspecified-gender to save their paid time off for times when they want to leave to do go do something while still getting paid, and the responsibility of the employer to be reasonably understanding with scheduling and covering said paid time off in relation to what it's for. Vacation vs pregnancy vs surgery vs travel vs whatever. All of which already exists in addition to actual maternity leave. I'm not sure why we cut this up into categories by gender or age.

    And so we're back at my original reply.

    I don't know what they're protesting.

    EDIT--
    A quick google shows European laws require A LOT more time off than we do actually... I'm honestly surprised at how much they get. I think I get 12/yr at my job and I don't use all of that. I'm sitting on hundreds of hours right now. WTF @ 25 days/year. That's not working an extra two days per month. How do you even cover all that.

    EDIT2--
    Yeah... there's got to be another factor here. Forget the time off. COVERING the time off and still having the business operate means they must be hiring a lot more workers than the U.S. is, relative to the amount of work being done? Tax differences? Medical/insurance cost differences?
    Last edited by VKhaun; 03-16-2017 at 11:57 AM.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  9. #9

    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    AFAIK you're correct, but now bring that back to the top. That's not a protest for "pay equality" that's a protest for "more benefits than men" which would make women more expensive, as they do not create profit in return during the time they're on maternity leave, and hurt their cause.

    To me, the common sense answer here is that it would be the responsibility of the person-of-unspecified-gender to save their paid time off for times when they want to leave to do go do something while still getting paid, and the responsibility of the employer to be reasonably understanding with scheduling and covering said paid time off in relation to what it's for. Vacation vs pregnancy vs surgery vs travel vs whatever. All of which already exists in addition to actual maternity leave. I'm not sure why we cut this up into categories by gender or age.

    And so we're back at my original reply.

    I don't know what they're protesting.

    EDIT--
    A quick google shows European laws require A LOT more time off than we do actually... I'm honestly surprised at how much they get. I think I get 12/yr at my job and I don't use all of that. I'm sitting on hundreds of hours right now. WTF @ 25 days/year. That's not working an extra two days per month. How do you even cover all that.

    EDIT2--
    Yeah... there's got to be another factor here. Forget the time off. COVERING the time off and still having the business operate means they must be hiring a lot more workers than the U.S. is, relative to the amount of work being done? Tax differences? Medical/insurance cost differences?
    I wouldn't hire a woman of childbearing age to do any critical complex jobs. It's too risky in a small business. If their role is actually important it could take a contractor weeks to get up to speed, cost a fortune, and if something goes wrong only they'd know how to fix in a timely fashion - possibly equality you right out of business. This is the unspoken truth about maternity leave. It's why female unemployment went through the roof in some parts of Europe when overly generous maternity leave laws were passed. It became too dangerous to hire women of childbearing age to do anything important.

    Jr. Programmer? Secretary? Sure. Lead Developer? Architect? Release Engineer? Simply too dangerous, unless they are older and have no young children (eg, stopped having kids). Even if they are not planning on having kids now, shit happens. Large corporations can afford the extra expenses and redundancies, small business can't. Small businesses employ more Americans than large corporations. If I was a woman I'd let slip the lie that I can't have children during interviews. All else being equal a functional womb is a big negative versus an equally qualified male counterpart.

    tldr: Ironically shittier maternity leave laws are why women are more competitive with men in the US labor force than in that bastion of idiocy, Europe. I understand this perfectly well, as does the organizer of this protest day, a woman who supports Shariah law.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    AFAIK you're correct, but now bring that back to the top. That's not a protest for "pay equality" that's a protest for "more benefits than men" which would make women more expensive, as they do not create profit in return during the time they're on maternity leave, and hurt their cause.

    To me, the common sense answer here is that it would be the responsibility of the person-of-unspecified-gender to save their paid time off for times when they want to leave to do go do something while still getting paid, and the responsibility of the employer to be reasonably understanding with scheduling and covering said paid time off in relation to what it's for. Vacation vs pregnancy vs surgery vs travel vs whatever. All of which already exists in addition to actual maternity leave. I'm not sure why we cut this up into categories by gender or age.

    And so we're back at my original reply.

    I don't know what they're protesting.

    EDIT--
    A quick google shows European laws require A LOT more time off than we do actually... I'm honestly surprised at how much they get. I think I get 12/yr at my job and I don't use all of that. I'm sitting on hundreds of hours right now. WTF @ 25 days/year. That's not working an extra two days per month. How do you even cover all that.

    EDIT2--
    Yeah... there's got to be another factor here. Forget the time off. COVERING the time off and still having the business operate means they must be hiring a lot more workers than the U.S. is, relative to the amount of work being done? Tax differences? Medical/insurance cost differences?
    You're forgetting the "insane" (reasonable if you want all these social safety nets and liberal labor regulations) amount of taxes that employees and employers pay for medical care, as well as increased social programs to offset the 'needs' of the 'less off'.

    I think you're also overestimating the cost of living over in Europe. Not only do a majority have healthcare as a tax, they also tend to live in countries/cities that are sprawled a lot less than America, with much better public transportation. Thus the need to own a vehicle is much less and thus removes a huge portion of spending from your life.

    The way of life in pretty much every country on earth is very different than the American life, it may not seem that way but it is.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Relevant, Please Watch:

    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  12. #12
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Relevant, Please Watch:

    Psychology 3/4 women, can confirm, most of them attractive too. Can also confirm lowest paying. ;_;

  13. #13

    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  14. #14

    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Cosmo: Why it's sexist to get turned on when your wife/girlfriend orgasms during sex

    I think the world could have used many extra days without some of these women.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  15. #15
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    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    Cosmo: Why it's sexist to get turned on when your wife/girlfriend orgasms during sex

    I think the world could have used many extra days without some of these women.
    I don't even know what to say. I'm blown away that this actually exists. Not only is it retarded, it's not really linked to men since women do, and seem to feel, the exact same thing?...
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  16. #16

    Default Re: A Day without women and such....

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

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