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  1. #326

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong



    ...

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  2. #327
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    WTF is this shit? These people can find ways to be offended by anything.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  3. #328

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    I actually had this thought about you guys the other day.

    Someone was asking about the culture difference between the middle east and America. I remembered a long time ago I went looking for the top religious leaders in Islam and tried to find what they said translated. I found a video of a guy (a "grand Imam"?) explaining how the west was about liberty first, and the middle east was about morality first. He said their frustrations with the west and concepts like human rights came from the fact that the west did not understand that it was putting liberty before morality because the west sees liberty as inherently moral, when it is in fact neutral (his words, not mine). So when middle eastern cultures marry people at very young ages or make extensive use of capital punishment, they're not doing it because they're evil. They're doing it because they believe it makes a better society and this is more important than individual rights or liberties.

    As a simple example, if roughly 40% of people on HRT commit suicide you could make opposite arguments for morality at different scales. On the large scale the government "allowing" this is effectively killing 40% of the people who take it up and this is an immoral act, inflicted upon society. On the low end, telling an individual they can or can not do something because of a risk is immoral because that should be their own choice or liberty. I consider it moral to give people their choices even if it means people get hurt or die. Islam, presumably, I'm no expert, would not agree and would literally kill people to suppress the idea and make sure it doesn't spread to hurt society.

    I think you guys go this way when you get uncomfortable. If we talk drugs you guys are fine with individual choice. If we talk children you're all about parent's rights and you say the government just fucks things up... but as soon as parents do something you disagree with or people aren't straight and white... suddenly you go full Islam and it's all about family units and society planning and eugenics and "helicopter rides". TBH if they weren't hell bent on killing us I think you'd like them.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  4. #329

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    I actually had this thought about you guys the other day.

    Someone was asking about the culture difference between the middle east and America. I remembered a long time ago I went looking for the top religious leaders in Islam and tried to find what they said translated. I found a video of a guy (a "grand Imam"?) explaining how the west was about liberty first, and the middle east was about morality first. He said their frustrations with the west and concepts like human rights came from the fact that the west did not understand that it was putting liberty before morality because the west sees liberty as inherently moral, when it is in fact neutral (his words, not mine). So when middle eastern cultures marry people at very young ages or make extensive use of capital punishment, they're not doing it because they're evil. They're doing it because they believe it makes a better society and this is more important than individual rights or liberties.

    As a simple example, if roughly 40% of people on HRT commit suicide you could make opposite arguments for morality at different scales. On the large scale the government "allowing" this is effectively killing 40% of the people who take it up and this is an immoral act, inflicted upon society. On the low end, telling an individual they can or can not do something because of a risk is immoral because that should be their own choice or liberty. I consider it moral to give people their choices even if it means people get hurt or die. Islam, presumably, I'm no expert, would not agree and would literally kill people to suppress the idea and make sure it doesn't spread to hurt society.

    I think you guys go this way when you get uncomfortable. If we talk drugs you guys are fine with individual choice. If we talk children you're all about parent's rights and you say the government just fucks things up... but as soon as parents do something you disagree with or people aren't straight and white... suddenly you go full Islam and it's all about family units and society planning and eugenics and "helicopter rides". TBH if they weren't hell bent on killing us I think you'd like them.
    I've read the Koran, and it's an immoral aggressive system (of everything), it's not even a normal religion because unlike regular religions it prescribes exactly what the state should look like and how it should behave. So, you're wrong.

    I think abortion is immoral in most instances, and fully support it being legal; because it kills more degenerates and undesirable elements than it affects my ideological allies.
    I think drug abuse is immoral, and could support it being legal; because it will kill more degenerates and undesirable elements than it will affect my ideological allies.
    A traditional family unit should be left alone by the government unless there is physical evidence of abuse, non-traditional family structures shouldn't even be recognized by the government.

    Free helicopter rides is just a more direct way of getting to the same outcome, dead degenerates. Just because you can't see a consistency in position doesn't mean it's not there. It just means the way of thinking is alien to you.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  5. #330
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    I actually had this thought about you guys the other day.

    Someone was asking about the culture difference between the middle east and America. I remembered a long time ago I went looking for the top religious leaders in Islam and tried to find what they said translated. I found a video of a guy (a "grand Imam"?) explaining how the west was about liberty first, and the middle east was about morality first. He said their frustrations with the west and concepts like human rights came from the fact that the west did not understand that it was putting liberty before morality because the west sees liberty as inherently moral, when it is in fact neutral (his words, not mine). So when middle eastern cultures marry people at very young ages or make extensive use of capital punishment, they're not doing it because they're evil. They're doing it because they believe it makes a better society and this is more important than individual rights or liberties.

    As a simple example, if roughly 40% of people on HRT commit suicide you could make opposite arguments for morality at different scales. On the large scale the government "allowing" this is effectively killing 40% of the people who take it up and this is an immoral act, inflicted upon society. On the low end, telling an individual they can or can not do something because of a risk is immoral because that should be their own choice or liberty. I consider it moral to give people their choices even if it means people get hurt or die. Islam, presumably, I'm no expert, would not agree and would literally kill people to suppress the idea and make sure it doesn't spread to hurt society.

    I think you guys go this way when you get uncomfortable. If we talk drugs you guys are fine with individual choice. If we talk children you're all about parent's rights and you say the government just fucks things up... but as soon as parents do something you disagree with or people aren't straight and white... suddenly you go full Islam and it's all about family units and society planning and eugenics and "helicopter rides". TBH if they weren't hell bent on killing us I think you'd like them.
    Real talk here. I can't speak for others, but for me the most sacred thing is the rule of law. I don't have any inclination for gays to be given helicopter rides. I think you confuse my hyperbole with my beliefs. When I rally against the homosexual lifestyle, what I am upset with is people having their 7 year olds twerk in gay pride parade. I'm upset with people with dildos strapped to their bodies walking down the streets, acting like that is a moral statement. That is degeneracy, and I want social pressures on those things, not legal ones. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be able to do it. I'm ok with Gays being married (in fact I would hope that marriage might push them to a more conservative lifestyle, than a sex and STD riddled one). I'm not convinced that gays shouldn't be able to adopt. There should be meticulous checks to ensure that they aren't pedophiles-- but my mother was in the foster care system as a child, and she was horrible molested by a man. Foster care is a fucking nightmare for most kids, and two well meaning gay men might very well not be perfect but a fat trailer house with 5 kids that are ignored is somehow better?

    Liberty is the most important thing in America. I'm against anyone or anything that seeks to reduce or censor it. I'd still rather have immoral homosexuals parading down central avenue and eating each other shit, than Muslims. Even if they do believe in the family unit.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  6. #331

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    So, as you can see VeeKay, Zavon and I agree to the same things for entirely different reasons, and while I'm not being ironic, he is.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  7. #332

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    I've read the Koran, and it's an immoral aggressive system (of everything), it's not even a normal religion because unlike regular religions it prescribes exactly what the state should look like and how it should behave. So, you're wrong.

    I think abortion is immoral in most instances, and fully support it being legal; because it kills more degenerates and undesirable elements than it affects my ideological allies.
    I think drug abuse is immoral, and could support it being legal; because it will kill more degenerates and undesirable elements than it will affect my ideological allies.
    A traditional family unit should be left alone by the government unless there is physical evidence of abuse, non-traditional family structures shouldn't even be recognized by the government.

    Free helicopter rides is just a more direct way of getting to the same outcome, dead degenerates. Just because you can't see a consistency in position doesn't mean it's not there. It just means the way of thinking is alien to you.
    No... You were making sense until you got to helicopter rides.

    Giving people liberties has resulted in what you call "degenerates" flourishing within and influencing politics, entertainment and what now passes for journalism. In the past you advocated helicopter rides to fix that. That is literally and exactly what we both just described for Islam.

    I might take more issue with Islam's (or a specific group's) definition of "haram" and I might digress the entirety of your definition of "haram" or "degeneracy" as acceptable, but it's still exactly the same ideology right down to extensive use of capital punishment to keep things in check.

    You're putting society above liberty.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  8. #333
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    No... You were making sense until you got to helicopter rides.

    Giving people liberties has resulted in what you call "degenerates" flourishing within and influencing politics, entertainment and what now passes for journalism. In the past you advocated helicopter rides to fix that. That is literally and exactly what we both just described for Islam.

    I might take more issue with Islam's (or a specific group's) definition of "haram" and I might digress the entirety of your definition of "haram" or "degeneracy" as acceptable, but it's still exactly the same ideology right down to extensive use of capital punishment to keep things in check.

    You're putting society above liberty.
    I think its an interesting question as to whether not both can be maintained, ya know? We are in an age now where colleges (our supposed higher education) is teaching Marxism as gospel and that white people are inherently 'evil'. It's already come to violence and censorship. The reason I'm on the right, is because the left is a danger to everything that America stands for. We aren't just seeing gays push for the same rights anymore. We are seeing people getting sued and threatened with criminal sentencing for shit like "misgendering" someone. Fuck that. I'll call you dude or bro or whatever the fuck I want because this is god damn America, and I don't care if you don't like it.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  9. #334

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    No... You were making sense until you got to helicopter rides.

    Giving people liberties has resulted in what you call "degenerates" flourishing within and influencing politics, entertainment and what now passes for journalism. In the past you advocated helicopter rides to fix that. That is literally and exactly what we both just described for Islam.

    I might take more issue with Islam's (or a specific group's) definition of "haram" and I might digress the entirety of your definition of "haram" or "degeneracy" as acceptable, but it's still exactly the same ideology right down to extensive use of capital punishment to keep things in check.

    You're putting society above liberty.
    Yeah, there are several distinctions. I'd throw gays in pride marches off rooftops but leave alone those that stayed at home and acted like real human beans. Essentially Russia has the right idea, outlaw gay propaganda.

    When I'm half-joking about giving people free helicopter rides it's driven by a belief that we're so far gone oceans of blood may be necessary to return things to equilibrium and sanity, not that it should be the permanent state of affairs. It's a fact that a country or place that thinks throwing people off rooftops and/or stoning them for social transgressions isn't a good place to live. The society Zavon envisions is good and well, I'd want to live there. I just no longer believe we can reach that societal goal without an intense "cleanup" period beforehand.

    I know you completely lack the ability to grasp nuance VK, so this is probably no different to you. Figured I'd try anyways. *shrug*
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  10. #335

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    I think its an interesting question as to whether not both can be maintained, ya know? We are in an age now where colleges (our supposed higher education) is teaching Marxism as gospel and that white people are inherently 'evil'. It's already come to violence and censorship. The reason I'm on the right, is because the left is a danger to everything that America stands for. We aren't just seeing gays push for the same rights anymore. We are seeing people getting sued and threatened with criminal sentencing for shit like "misgendering" someone. Fuck that. I'll call you dude or bro or whatever the fuck I want because this is god damn America, and I don't care if you don't like it.
    You mean you can do what you like, even if thousands are convinced you shouldn't be allowed to? Liberty above society then?
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  11. #336
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    You mean you can do what you like, even if thousands are convinced you shouldn't be allowed to? Liberty above society then?
    Protecting Liberty IS protecting society.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  12. #337

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    You mean you can do what you like, even if thousands are convinced you shouldn't be allowed to? Liberty above society then?
    There is both an individualist and collectivist argument that could be made. The individualist argument I'm sure you could make yourself.

    The collectivist argument would be that society and our people are doomed if we don't maintain adherence to natural law. Since the opinions of those people are abhorrent to nature, they must be put down for the good of society.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  13. #338

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Protecting Liberty IS protecting society.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  14. #339

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Asians Penalized 50 Points On SAT – Black Students Given 230 Bonus Points… and Dreamers receive 185 points added to SAT scores.
    http://investmentwatchblog.com/asian...to-sat-scores/

    Probably one of the reasons our 10 year outlook is so grim. You can artificially limit whites and asians but you can't make those you replaced them with succeed at the same levels.

    http://www.deagel.com/country/United...ica_c0001.aspx
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  15. #340

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Nolte: Civil Rights Lawsuit Claims Gifted Black Girl Bullied by Black Students for ‘Acting White’
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-acting-white/
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  16. #341
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    Nolte: Civil Rights Lawsuit Claims Gifted Black Girl Bullied by Black Students for ‘Acting White’
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-acting-white/
    >tfw acting civilzed is being another race entirely

    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  17. #342
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    >tfw acting civilzed is being another race entirely

    My wife and I had a 2 black female friends in college that were in the masters program with my wife. Both said, and they have been verbally attacked by other blacks who were saying, and I quote "you must think you white going to college?" and "why you trying to be white?" because they decided to get college degrees. One of these girls exclusively dated white guys because she wanted out of the culture. Note this is not hearsay, this is 2 people my wife and I knew personally who have said this directly to us.
    "Nah man, a Paladin has to play fair and by the rules. Do you really see Silly not attacking a weakened opponent? Or rather, not exploiting a weakness to take an enemy down? He'd totally do that. It's the law of the jungle with Silly, even if he does have faith. I think he's principled, just not merciful." - Zavon

  18. #343
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Ignorance and Pride go hand in hand... Funny how that works.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  19. #344

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Ignorance and Pride go hand in hand... Funny how that works.
    Truth. Always thought this was weird about my generation. I don't remember thinking this about my father's generation. They contentment with their situation, or they had pride in what they made of it. Or so it seemed.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  20. #345

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    This is a little older, but it's why DEMOGRAPHICS are important VK.


    http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/03/pr...ale-construct/
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  21. #346
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    This is a little older, but it's why DEMOGRAPHICS are important VK.


    http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/03/pr...ale-construct/
    Just a continuance of the stupidity of relativism. Neal Stephenson was making fun of this shit in Cryptonomican be in the 90s.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  22. #347

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Just a continuance of the stupidity of relativism. Neal Stephenson was making fun of this shit in Cryptonomican be in the 90s.
    On the topic of demographics though, I think in about 15 years Texas will be California 2.0. It should be interesting.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  23. #348

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Ecosexualism: A New Frontier in Degeneracy
    https://dailystormer.at/ecosexualism...in-degeneracy/

    Disclaimer: DailyStormer = Satirical oft-banned cybernazi site. Perhaps NSFW because people are apparently unable to differentiate between sarcastic satire and reality. Original CollegeFix story here, but less entertaining and informative.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  24. #349
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    Ecosexualism: A New Frontier in Degeneracy
    https://dailystormer.at/ecosexualism...in-degeneracy/

    Disclaimer: DailyStormer = Satirical oft-banned cybernazi site. Perhaps NSFW because people are apparently unable to differentiate between sarcastic satire and reality. Original CollegeFix story here, but less entertaining and informative.
    Someone should make a sperm and mud baby and walk around this professor's class.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  25. #350

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Oh Europe.

    BBC Trending
    How do you do your make-up after an acid attack?

    https://archive.fo/bWUtx

    Man admits to spray painting swastikas on his own house, lying to police

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...cle-1.3474083?
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

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