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  1. #101
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Here is a paper from a Climatologist from 9-10 years ago about the dangerous myth of Human caused climate-change. Are you asserting that the scientific community has resolved every single one of the issues identified in this paper?

    https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/31...arter_2007.pdf
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  2. #102
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Here is a paper from a Climatologist from 9-10 years ago about the dangerous myth of Human caused climate-change. Are you asserting that the scientific community has resolved every single one of the issues identified in this paper?

    https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/31...arter_2007.pdf
    Robert M. Carter was not a Climatologist. He was a palentologist and geologist. He has no idea what he's talking about in that paper. He's just playing with other people's numbers to cast doubt. His "work" lead to great ideas like The Great Barrier Reef is Doing Fine.

    Can we move on please? If you're capable of googling random denier papers to throw at me, you're capable of googling their authors and their other works.
    Last edited by VKhaun; 04-26-2017 at 07:19 AM.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Robert M. Carter was not a Climatologist. He was a palentologist and geologist. He has no idea what he's talking about in that paper. He's just playing with other people's numbers to cast doubt. His "work" lead to great ideas like The Great Barrier Reef is Doing Fine.
    Well if you say so. Since you have so rationally presented an anti-argument to all the problems he identified in that paper, I guess I'll just have to just start making fun of "science deniers" with you. It's almost like a theme with you, where you ignore what a person says and then either defend or attack their character. I love it.

    Speaking of which, man Science deniers make me so angry. I'ts like check ur emissions u assholes. The earth is like, dying. I'm wearing some cool hemp made cargo shorts for eart day, wat about u?

    Edit: Sure we can move on.
    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 07:23 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  4. #104
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    https://heatst.com/culture-wars/knig...rge-character/


    Oops: meant to post this link, but I'll leave the other one up for you to read too.

    https://heatst.com/culture-wars/drex...students-flee/
    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 07:33 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  5. #105
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Well if you say so. Since you have so rationally presented an anti-argument to all the problems he identified in that paper, I guess I'll just have to just start making fun of "science deniers" with you.
    What is it you don't understand about "directly observable"?

    I do not need to present an argument for every retarded claim that the planet is flat. We have actual photographs of it from the space station.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    What is it you don't understand about "directly observable"?

    I do not need to present an argument for every retarded claim that the planet is flat. We have actual photographs of it from the space station.
    Where did he state the earth was flat? I must have missed that part. There are probably 40 or more cited scientific papers cited in that paper, but "lol no thats retarded" by you is a wonderful counter. You should be a science.
    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 07:47 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  7. #107

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Where did he state the earth was flat? I must have missed that part. There are probably 40 or more cited scientific papers cited in that paper, but "lol no thats retarded" by you is a wonderful counter. You should be a science.
    This is a fruitless line of reasoning because ain't nobody got no time to read 40 papers. Apparently that Bill Nye thing doesn't get any less cringe.

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  8. #108
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    This is a fruitless line of reasoning because ain't nobody got no time to read 40 papers. Apparently that Bill Nye thing doesn't get any less cringe.
    I don't expect him to. I was just pointing out how stupid it is to equate a scientific article to some random loon on the internet saying the earth is flat.

    In fact, here are notes from a 2014 presentation for scientists, by (then?) Caltech Professor Steve Koonin (a MIT PhD Graduate), that largely support what the paper I linked already stated. I guess he's a "random google denier" too?

    Cliff notes:


    * The idea that “Climate science is settled” runs through today’s popular and policy discussions. Unfortunately, that claim is misguided.

    * The crucial scientific question for policy isn’t whether the climate is changing. That is a settled matter: The climate has always changed and always will. . . . Nor is the crucial question whether humans are influencing the climate. That is no hoax: There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. There is also little doubt that the carbon dioxide will persist in the atmosphere for several centuries. The impact today of human activity appears to be comparable to the intrinsic, natural variability of the climate system itself. Rather, the crucial, unsettled scientific question for policy is, “How will the climate change over the next century under both natural and human influences?”

    * Even though human influences could have serious consequences for the climate, they are physically small in relation to the climate system as a whole. . . . Since the climate system is highly variable on its own, that smallness sets a very high bar for confidently projecting the consequences of human influences.

    * The oceans, which change over decades and centuries, hold most of the climate’s heat and strongly influence the atmosphere. Unfortunately, precise, comprehensive observations of the oceans are available only for the past few decades; the reliable record is still far too short to adequately understand how the oceans will change and how that will affect climate.

    * We often hear that there is a “scientific consensus” about climate change. But as far as the computer models go, there isn’t a useful consensus at the level of detail relevant to assessing human influences.

    * Work to resolve . . . shortcomings in climate models should be among the top priorities for climate research. Yet a public official reading only the IPCC’s “Summary for Policy Makers” would gain little sense of the extent or implications of these deficiencies.

    * While the past two decades have seen progress in climate science, the field is not yet mature enough to usefully answer the difficult and important questions being asked of it.

    * We can and should take steps to make climate projections more useful over time. . . . The science is urgent, since we could be caught flat-footed if our understanding does not improve more rapidly than the climate itself changes.

    * Policy makers and the public may wish for the comfort of certainty in their climate science. But I fear that rigidly promulgating the idea that climate science is “settled” (or is a “hoax”) demeans and chills the scientific enterprise, retarding its progress in these important matters. Uncertainty is a prime mover and motivator of science and must be faced head-on.

    * Individuals and countries can legitimately disagree about these matters, so the discussion should not be about “believing” or “denying” the science. Despite the statements of numerous scientific societies, the scientific community cannot claim any special expertise in addressing issues related to humanity’s deepest goals and values. The political and diplomatic spheres are best suited to debating and resolving such questions, and misrepresenting the current state of climate science does nothing to advance that effort.

    ------------------------
    Still, moving on:

    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 08:56 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  9. #109

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Irony

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  10. #110
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    There are probably 40 or more cited scientific papers cited in that paper, but "lol no thats retarded" by you is a wonderful counter. You should be a science.
    If you had any interest in what's going on you'd google the actual data and read what's actually being done. Instead you went googling for a denial paper and you put the first one up you found as "a paper from a Climatologist" even though it's not. You're not retarded, you're just here on this site trading news stories to confirm your existing beliefs. This conversation doesn't confirm your beliefs, so you're retreating behind manufactured uncertainty and willful ignorance back to your safe space. I am not being unreasonable or unscientific for not spoon feeding you equally googlable arguments.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    If you had any interest in what's going on you'd google the actual data and read what's actually being done. Instead you went googling for a denial paper and you put the first one up you found as "a paper from a Climatologist" even though it's not. You're not retarded, you're just here on this site trading news stories to confirm your existing beliefs. This conversation doesn't confirm your beliefs, so you're retreating behind manufactured uncertainty and willful ignorance back to your safe space. I am not being unreasonable or unscientific for not spoon feeding you equally googlable arguments.
    Your belief that it was "settled 15 years ago" is what is willfully ignorant. Oh, and calling someone a "denier" shows the depths of just how ignorant you are. You have yet to say anything reasonable. I've already stated and shown your MO which continues to occur (even here attacking me instead of what was said).

    The reality is Vawkan, I'm no expert on climate change or Greenhouse gasses. But, I'm smart enough to know that when someone says that "science" is settled, especially in an area where you can not experiment on such a thing as a planet, that I should be wary. This is an area that is too new and requires too much finesse to just outright buy into. You can't fix a problem you don't understand, and you especially can't fix something if you don't even know that it will be a problem. Calling anyone that disagrees with you a "denier" is the very antithesis of what science is about.
    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 09:09 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  12. #112
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    Irony

    I lol'd.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  13. #113
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Your belief that it was "settled 15 years ago" is what is willfully ignorant. Oh, and calling someone a "denier" shows the depths of just how ignorant you are.
    Sure buddy. Stay away from those peer reviewed journals with all the data and answers you're pretending to look for.

    Just call anyone who tells you to read those "ignorant", deny they exist and deny that makes you a denier.

    Just go read Breibart making the claims you prefer until you feel better.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Sure buddy. Stay away from those peer reviewed journals with all the data and answers you're pretending to look for.

    Just call anyone who tells you to read those "ignorant", deny they exist and deny that makes you a denier.

    Just go read Breibart making the claims you prefer until you feel better.
    I don't deny that there are conflicting reports about climate change, unlike you I don't think the issue is already settled and write off anyone that disagrees with me. I've never once made that statement.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  15. #115

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Sure buddy. Stay away from those peer reviewed journals with all the data and answers you're pretending to look for.

    Just call anyone who tells you to read those "ignorant", deny they exist and deny that makes you a denier.

    Just go read Breibart making the claims you prefer until you feel better.
    Burn the witch!
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  16. #116
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    The reality is Vawkan, I'm no expert on climate change or Greenhouse gasses. But, I'm smart enough to know that when someone says that "science" is settled, especially in an area where you can not experiment on such a thing as a planet, that I should be wary. This is an area that is too new and requires too much finesse to just outright buy into. You can't fix a problem you don't understand, and you especially can't fix something if you don't even know that it will be a problem. Calling anyone that disagrees with you a "denier" is the very antithesis of what science is about.
    Yeah, you read a ten year old paper from an oil company shill geologist that he wasn't qualified to write, based on sources he was not qualified to evaluate but specifically cherry picked to fit what he wanted to say. Meanwhile you can't be bothered to read the work of the organization that put a man on the fucking moon because you're "wary". You'll never look into the real work being done by real climate scientists based on real data, or their replies to debunk your chosen shield-paper, because you're just SUPER DUPER WARY.

    Come on. You're not interested in science. You're interested in confirming your existing beliefs.
    Last edited by VKhaun; 04-26-2017 at 09:34 AM.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  17. #117

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Yeah, you read a ten year old paper from an oil company shill geologist based on sources he was not qualified to evaluate but specifically cherry picked to fit what he wanted to say, but you can't be bothered to read the work of the organization that put a man on the fucking moon because you're "wary".
    You are making an appeal to authority now. You trust the authorities more than Zavon does. This has nothing to do with climate science.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  18. #118
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    You are making an appeal to authority now. You trust the authorities more than Zavon does. This has nothing to do with climate science.
    That crap leads right back to the same place: you choose not to read the confrontation between the two and pretend the outcome is in doubt.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  19. #119

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    That crap leads right back to the same place: you choose not to read the confrontation between the two and pretend the outcome is in doubt.
    No, this is a religious belief for you. I largely don't care about this topic for the reasons I've already outlined. I am however, very skeptical of any claims that consist largely of failed predictions.

    Your righteous indignation is very telling; introspect, you know it to be true. This is drilled so deep that you accept it on faith and have an automatic bias against anything challenging that faith.
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  20. #120

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  21. #121
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Yeah, you read a ten year old paper from an oil company shill geologist that he wasn't qualified to write, based on sources he was not qualified to evaluate but specifically cherry picked to fit what he wanted to say. Meanwhile you can't be bothered to read the work of the organization that put a man on the fucking moon because you're "wary". You'll never look into the real work being done by real climate scientists based on real data, or their replies to debunk your chosen shield-paper, because you're just SUPER DUPER WARY.

    Come on. You're not interested in science. You're interested in confirming your existing beliefs.
    It's really sad because I don't think you understand how science works, and I should have learned that already when I tried to explain simple statistics to you. I think you have a sharp mind, but an utter inability so use abstraction or even finesse. You are a blunt instrument; you'd probably be good in a field like engineering (I'm throwing a wild guess out there).

    Let's go with what NASA says, and what large pools of data actually support: There is global warming, and some of that is likely caused by human activity (Quote from NASA: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities). That is it.

    We don't know how much climate change is done by human activity. There is no number that can be assigned to such a phenomena, and subsequently how to gauge the threat it represents.

    So, by how much do we reduce our carbon emissions? We don't know.
    Will alternative fuel sources be better? Maybe.
    Can the damage be fixed or reverse? Maybe.
    Is there any damage? Maybe.

    I get it, you are afraid of this kind of uncertainty. NDT and other Pop-scientist figures make you feel secure and like there is an answer to everything, just waiting to happen. I'm sorry that I've told you that that isn't true. You can call me a right-winger or whatever makes you feel better to console your irrationality.

    I don't think we should stop asking those questions. I think and believe it is best that we continue to seek the answers to every single one of them. I am only opposed to acting as though those questions do not exist.
    Last edited by Zavon; 04-26-2017 at 10:01 AM.
    "Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." ~ Voltaire

    2 Kings 2:23-24: "....Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys."

  22. #122
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    No, this is a religious belief for you. I largely don't care about this topic for the reasons I've already outlined. I am very skeptical of any claims that consist largely of failed predictions.

    Your righteous indignation is very telling; introspect, you know it to be true. This is drilled so deep that you accept it on faith and have an automatic bias against anything challenging that faith.
    Except I've changed sides three times and you know I have. You converted me to skepticism last time. The only thing "drilled so deep" in me (phrasing, boom!) is that Al Gore and the alarmists were full of shit because I scattered my father's ashes on a beach they said would be under water long ago. Sorry, but I'm not some blind libtard. Your deflections against alarmist bullshit do not apply. I'm the independent that gets to call you both on your shit.

    The data is public. The methods are public. The arguments are public. The winner is public. The alarmists aren't running the show anymore. The science is realistic, honest and betrays the alarmists as well as they try to blame extreme weather patterns on climate change and scientists shoot them down.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY6X...=youtu.be&t=60
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  23. #123

    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by VKhaun View Post
    Except I've changed sides three times and you know I have. You converted me to skepticism last time. The only thing "drilled so deep" in me (phrasing, boom!) is that Al Gore and the alarmists were full of shit because I scattered my father's ashes on a beach they said would be under water long ago. Sorry, but I'm not some blind libtard. Your deflections against alarmist bullshit do not apply. I'm the independent that gets to call you both on your shit.

    The data is public. The methods are public. The arguments are public. The winner is public. The alarmists aren't running the show anymore. The science is realistic, honest and betrays the alarmists as well as they try to blame extreme weather patterns on climate change and scientists shoot them down.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY6X...=youtu.be&t=60
    Then what the crap are you guys even arguing about? If you know people trying to politicize climate change are full of shit and you know that we can't say to what degree humans are impacting climate change?

    This is exactly the problem people have with what Neil DeGrasse Tyson said. Do you find that to be unreasonable?
    "The argument that “people now have more freedom than ever” is based on the fact that we are allowed to do almost anything we please as long as it has no practical consequences."

  24. #124
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Zavon View Post
    Let's go with what NASA says, and what large pools of data actually support: There is global warming, and some of that is likely caused by human activity (Quote from NASA: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities). That is it.
    Uh... no... that's not it... The NASA site on climate change is extensive and makes very specific statements on the topics you mentioned. Once again, trying to draw me into an argument about what science means while you ignore it and seek only to confirm your beliefs.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

  25. #125
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    Default Re: When Social Justice Goes Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Marou View Post
    Then what the crap are you guys even arguing about? If you know people trying to politicize climate change are full of shit and you know that we can't say to what degree humans are impacting climate change?

    This is exactly the problem people have with what Zavon posted. Do you find that to be unreasonable?
    NDT's core point in that video was spot on.

    There's a conversation that can't happen because people in politics are pretending climate change is a hoax.
    Nowadays when people start to get killed by fireballs, no one says they need to dodge the fireball anymore; they say they need to go get a fire resist ring and some ice damage so they don't have to.

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