Pathfinder: Kingmaker

[Zavon]

I'm not positive yet, but I think some of the dialog you get from characters is dependent upon your alignment and choices in game. For instance, I did a evil run and Jaethal was a chatter box telling me about all kinds of stuff. Now, I'm doing a neutral good run and she has nothing to say to me.

[Pyrrhus]

I got it, am happy with it so far, love the customization. THough I have no knowledge of the system so I feel like choices may haunt me later.

[Zavon]

I think they re-balanced some of the encounters. I just fought that treant at the temple and it went down super fast.

I got it, am happy with it so far, love the customization. THough I have no knowledge of the system so I feel like choices may haunt me later.

Yeah it's a nice feeling knowing your choices matter isn't it? It's a sensation I actually miss in an RPG. I think Aeinna hit the nail on the head with her comparison to NWN. I'm really impressed with this as a debut game.

What did you decide to start off with class and race?

[Pyrrhus]

I'm trying a chaotic neutral rogue in the vein of Wit/Hoid from sanderson, or at least something similar to him, rogue high in speech/perception/wisdom/lore/trickery not so great in combat but eh, curious to see what the game has to offer.

Game makes me realize how hard it can be to sit down and accomplish stuff with all the story, which is fine, I'm probably still really early into the game. Looks to be a long/wide game too.

[Aeinna]

I'm trying a chaotic neutral rogue in the vein of Wit/Hoid from sanderson, or at least something similar to him, rogue high in speech/perception/wisdom/lore/trickery not so great in combat but eh, curious to see what the game has to offer.

Game makes me realize how hard it can be to sit down and accomplish stuff with all the story, which is fine, I'm probably still really early into the game. Looks to be a long/wide game too.

Have you never played D&D?

Cause I ain't heard of no rogue needing more than base wis...ever. Dex, con and str are the most important stats unless you want use magic device and or int for all the skill points. They are not an easy class to make right. Monks fall into that category as well. Feats are very important and as any melee class, I would think it is important to be minimum 13 str and dex, shooting for 16 str if you got wiggle room. You can make or break a character by spending your ability points wrong, taking the wrong feats and multiclassing badly.


Granted, I don't play rogues so maybe I am missing something but it sounds like you did your character a dirty. Which happens, I still make fucked up characters sometimes, all about experimentation.

Edit: While rpg's like this allow tons of weird class building that can work and work well, there is some stuff that will always be useless depending on what you picked. You will never make a wiz/sorc with wisdom, barbarians and rangers wont use charisma (outside of a couple of points if you are dead set on persuasion), etc etc. Same goes with feats. I wont be taking whirlwind on my sorc, even with 14 dex, because it is useless. The one problem D&D and Pathfinder suffer from, is most classes are not new player friendly. You could probably derp your way through with a fighter or wizard but that is about it. Even sorcerers are difficult, if you don't understand what spells are useful long term.

[Pyrrhus]

I just basically figured I'd be re-rolling eventually so I wanted to see if I could do anything interesting with high lore knowledge and checks, and wis helps with CC checks as well as the lore/knowledge.

Wanted to see if I could break some of the conversation things too, I feel I did get some interesting results through the intro with some high Wis/Chrsm

[Aeinna]

I just basically figured I'd be re-rolling eventually so I wanted to see if I could do anything interesting with high lore knowledge and checks, and wis helps with CC checks as well as the lore/knowledge.

Wanted to see if I could break some of the conversation things too, I feel I did get some interesting results through the intro with some high Wis/Chrsm

Wis only affects religion, nature and perception but you don't need any of those, because your party can do those checks for you in most cases. Even with base wis 10, I can still pass 30% of them myself.

There will be different results throughout the whole game depending on what you picked. I'm also not sure what results you think you'd get with high wis in conversations? Charisma is for conversations but it still doesn't need to be high.

Guess my point is, like I said, you can make some funky builds but you still have to stay somewhat in the parameters of the class you picked. The closest thing to a wis rogue would be a dual welding ranger, they just don't get use magic device and sneak attacks. Though I am pretty sure there is a ranger prestige class that does, if memory is being correct (not in game, at least yet).

[Marou]

I just basically figured I'd be re-rolling eventually so I wanted to see if I could do anything interesting with high lore knowledge and checks, and wis helps with CC checks as well as the lore/knowledge.

Wanted to see if I could break some of the conversation things too, I feel I did get some interesting results through the intro with some high Wis/Chrsm

To the extent that effects dialogue it would just become more similar to how it plays out with a naturally high WIS/CHA, eg. - cleric/paladin. Since I have bad altitus I've redone Act 1 & 2 with several classes. The difference in dialogue options between a 10 WIS 10 CHA Wizard and an 18 WIS, 14 CHA Cleric is minimal if not nonexistent. Yeah, the cleric is more likely to pass a persuasion check, but not by much - and you can always save scum if you want. What choices you have available in conversation don't seem attribute or skill based; the order and timing in which you do things are vastly more impactful than any dialogue skill checks.

[Aeinna]

Going to rant.

On the main owlcat page:

COMPANION FOCUSED STORY
Experience the adventure alongside living and breathing companions, each with deep stories and decisions of their own. Love them, adore them or hate them for who they are.

WHERE NIGGERS?! I just finished chapter three and still fucking nothing. They do not talk to each other, do not talk to me, barely speak up about anything I've done or what has happened. This is playing like a game where you create a party at the beginning and they aren't really companions. You can say a whole hell of a lot about rpg's the last several years that had companions, like Dragon Age (excluding the first one, still a great game) and PoE but they actually had companions that at least in some way, felt like companions. They bicker with each other, always comment on whats going, even in DA had decent quests about them.

This is NOT what they god damn promised. This is the games biggest flaw and really disappoints me. One of my favorite, if not favorite, part of crpg's, is the companions. This is fucking a disgrace when your front page claims different than what is delivered.

Maybe its a bug or maybe they really think they did a good job. Either way, it fucking sucks right now. I could solo the game and miss nothing.

[Aeinna]

They finally fixed everything and the game is playable now. I finished it yesterday and don't know how I feel.

I got the good ending and I mean, good ending for a lawful good aligned character. I hold NWN 2/Mask as top of the top, best story and companions of any rpg of this type I've played. I still replay this game and remember the feelings it invoked when I finished it for the first time, whether you were evil or good. Pathfinder did not do that for me. It lacked impact and when done, felt like your character didn't really matter all that much. I don't hate the end and I will replay it with different alignments but it lacks that special something that made you care like in NWN 2/Mask/Baldur.

The companions don't get much better, though I got to see all their stories. Nok-Nok quickly became my favorite with Harrim as second, their endings were nice but Nok-Nok is best bud. Jathel had a good story and the twist around it because of my lawful good actions were nice but everyone else felt shallow. You can lose your companions too. Whether by they just leave you, death or other stuff that happens in the later chapters. I only lost Amiri and didn't give a shit, hated her from start to finish.

The side story stuff is non-existent. The world has around 150 locations and half of those consist of a few monters and a dead body with random loot on it. Which was a huge disappointment.

This game has the best character creation that has come out in over a decade, its got an interesting main story sometimes, boring other times and shallow characters/world exploration/side stories. I'll play again, probably several times and enjoy it in spite of its flaws. It just another game of its type that couldn't come close to the beauty that was NWN2/Baldur. Still waiting for someone to make a game that is as good as those.

Edit: As a side note, I played on standard difficulty with a monk. I never play monks but it was great in this. By the middle of the game, I was just exploding people. I don't like micromanaging my party, so often in the harder fights my monk and Valerie were the only ones to survive. I leveled up my companions, didn't use the auto feature. Next time I'll play on hard difficulty and manage the other people more.